The Julie Norman Show
Julie Norman
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A discussion-based podcast on politics, ethics, and current affairs, featuring in-depth conversations with (extra)ordinary individuals.
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Apr 21, 2021
This Will Be Your Legacy
My guest for today’s season finale is Bob Karp (@BobKarpDR). Bob is a photographer whom I first learned about through his amazing photos of endangered lemurs at the Duke Lemur Center. I assumed Bob had always been a wildlife photographer, but in fact, he has over three decades of photojournalism experience, covering everything from Michael Jordan to 9/11, from Hurricane Sandy to Trump rallies and Black Lives Matter marches. Looking through his photos is like looking through a photo album of America.
Bob Karp has been up close and personal with a number of famous faces: Joe Biden, Taylor Swift, Mike Tyson, Bruce Springsteen… but the photos of his that interested me the most (beside the lemurs of course) were the pictures of everyday people in their everyday lives, sometimes in moments of unbridled joy, others in moments of unspeakable sorrow.
I wanted to have Bob on the show to talk about the stories behind these photos, about what photography captures but also what it leaves out, and how Bob has seen America unfold and change over the past years. And of course, we talk about the lemurs.
Bob Karp’s photography:
https://www.bobkarpphotography.com
https://www.dailyrecord.com/picture-gallery/life/2018/12/21/three-decades-images-daily-record-photojournalist-bob-karp/2391073002/
Book recommendation:
Let Us Now Praise Famous Men, by James Agee & Walker Evans
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Apr 14, 2021
Quality of Life
Kate Tomlinson is a nurse who specialises in palliative care. I wanted to talk with her more about why it’s so hard to talk about death, what it’s like being with people and their families in their last few months, and how society balances extending life vs. quality of life. We also talk about Kate’s work with Doctors Without Borders in central Africa, and how Covid has (or hasn’t) changed the way we think about both global health and mortality.
Recommendations:
The Poisonwood Bible, by Barbara Kingsolver
Being Mortal, by Atul Gawande
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Apr 7, 2021
Border Crossing
Eric Reidy (@Eric_Reidy) is a journalist and the migration editor-at-large for The New Humanitarian. He has reported extensively on migration in the Mediterranean as well as on humanitarian aid work and vigilante groups at the US-Mexico border.
In addition to the New Humanitarian, he has written for Wired Magazine, the New Republic, the Nation, Mother Jones, and the MIT Technology Review, among other outlets. He is the author of the award winning Ghost Boat – an investigative series about the disappearance of 243 refugees in the Mediterranean Sea.
I’ve wanted to have Eric on the podcast for a while to talk about both the issues he covers, and also how he covers them. His style of journalism is one you don’t see very often – long-form, character-driven, and usually based on weeks or even months of investigative field work in tough places.
In this episode, we talk about the worsening humanitarian situation at the US-Mexico border, Eric’s previous work on migration to the EU, what people get wrong about refugees, and why there are no easy answers to policy questions about migration.
Recommendations:
Beyond the Sand and Sea by Ty McCormick
The Ungrateful Refugee, by Dina Nayeri
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Apr 1, 2021
"I Am Not Okay." Revisting Anti-Asian Hate Crimes
Jennifer Chen (@jchenwriter) is a freelance journalist who has written for print and online media, including pieces in the New York Times, Oprah Magazine, and many other publications. Over the past year, she has written four articles on the rise of anti-Asian hate crimes in America since the start of the pandemic.
Jenn came on the JNS last summer to discuss attacks against the Asian-American Pacific Islander (AAPI) community, and I wanted to have her back on the show to discuss what’s changed (and what hasn’t) over the past year, and how people are coping and responding to the violence. We also discuss the impact of the Atlanta shootings, why hate crimes are hard to prosecute, and the complexities of race and racism in America.
Jenn’s Articles:
Georgia Senator Michelle Au Shares What You Can Do to Help the Asian American Community
How You Can Join the Stop Asian Hate Movement
Racist Attacks Against Asian Americans Are Still on The Rise During COVID-19
Yes, Calling Coronavirus “the Chinese Virus” or Kung-Flu Is Racist
Resources:
Stop AAPI Hate
Hate is a Virus
Recommendations:
Interior Chinatown, by Charles Yu
Minari, directed by Lee Isaac Chung
Joy Ride Newsletter
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Mar 11, 2021
Church and State
My guest today is Patrick Cacchione. He’s been working at the intersection of politics, religion, and health policy for the past three decades, and he’s one of my favorite people to speak with on these topics. Patrick has been a teacher, a writer, and has worked on Capitol Hill, but his main role for the past 30 years has been with the Catholic Health Association, an organisation that advocates and educates for health policy rooted in Catholic ethics and teaching.
I wanted to have this conversation for several reasons. First, I’m interested in what happens when religious freedoms and other civil liberties come into tension, and how we deal with that as a state and as a society. I'm also attracted to concepts and ideas that scramble our usual assumptions of polarisation, and Catholic health is one area that does that, with policy positions that don’t fall neatly along party lines. Finally, I’m fascinated by the moral foundations and ethical frameworks that orient people towards different policy positions, and how, even when we disagree, trying to drill down to those moral motivations might help us understand others’ positions a little bit better.
Book recommendation:
Brave New World, by Aldous Huxley
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Feb 24, 2021
Pandemic Ethics
What are some of the competing ethical considerations that have defined how we respond to the pandemic?
Dr. Gry Wester is a Lecturer in Bioethics and Global Health Ethics at Kings College London. This year she was also a member of the Expert Group in Ethics and Priority Setting for Coronavirus Vaccination in Norway, essentially deciding the order in which people should get vaccinated.
Gry’s training is in political philosophy, and her work focuses on using philosophy and ethics to address real-world policy challenges, especially on questions related to justice, equality, and public health.
In this conversation, we talk about the different moral considerations that have defined both personal and policy choices during the pandemic, as well as broader questions about public health and social inequalities.
Recommendations:
Man's Search for Meaning, by Viktor Frankl
Disadvantage, by Jonathan Wolff
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Feb 6, 2021
Common Good
Today my guest is Christopher Tutor, the Chairman of the Republican Party in Shelby County, Tennessee. Chris has lived a life of public service, trying to develop what he calls the ‘common good’ in his hometown of Memphis, including faith-based service, improving race relations, and working on a variety of community issues.
At a time when national politics are so highly divisive and polarized, I wanted to have Chris on the show to tell me more about what politics, and community in general, is like in Shelby County, and how his vision of the common good fits into that. This is a rich conversation that I really enjoyed, in which we talk about how local politics differs from the national level, what Democrats get wrong about Republicans and vice versa, the tensions and contradictions within both parties, plus race, religion, personal journeys, and much more.
Book Recommendations:
The Conservative Mind, by Russell Kirk
The Island of the World, by Michael D. O'Brien
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Jan 31, 2021
Exiting Violent Extremism
My guest today is Tony McAleer (@mcaleer), the author of the book, The Cure For Hate: A Former White Supremacist’s Journey From Violent Extremism To Radical Compassion.
Tony spent 15 years in white supremacist and neo-nazi movements before eventually disengaging and co-founding the nonprofit organization, Life After Hate, which helps people leave hate groups.
I wanted to have Tony on the show to share his own story and insights on why people join extremist organisations, what keeps them in, and why and how they leave. But I also wanted to hear Tony's thoughts on violent extremism in the US today, especially in the wake of the Capitol riot and the renewed focus on far-right violent extremist organisations in particular. Is what we are seeing today something new? What can we do about it? And what are we getting wrong?
Book recommendations:
The Cure For Hate: A Former White Supremacist’s Journey From Violent Extremism To Radical Compassion, by Tony McAleer
The Kybalion
Films:
Healing from Hate
Auschwitz
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Jan 16, 2021
Political Violence
This is the second of two episodes in my doubleheader kickoff to Season 2, which is starting in the wake of the Capitol riot, the second impeachment of outgoing US President Donald Trump, and ongoing tensions in the US and elsewhere.
This is a very timely conversation with Nathan Stock. Nathan is a Conflict Resolution Program Consultant at the Carter Center, a non-profit typically known for its work on peace-building and election monitoring overseas, especially in countries dealing with conflict or division.
In the past year though, the Center started focusing on the US, on preventing violence during and after the November elections. Nathan has been working on that project, meeting with local community leaders to help recognise deepening divisions, defuse tensions, and build resilience to potential violence. We discuss the potential but also the challenges and limitations of those efforts, and the extent to which lessons from other divided societies might apply to the US today.
Book recommendation: The Upswing, by Robert Putnam & Shaylyn Romney Garrett
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Jan 16, 2021
Dangerous Speech
I’m delighted to kick off this season with an incredibly timely conversation with Dr. Jeffrey Howard (@jeffhowarducl).
Jeff is an Associate Professor of Political Theory at UCL’s Department of Political Science, where he works on political and legal philosophy, focusing on the moral challenges facing citizens and policymakers.
Recently Jeff has been working on a project on “dangerous speech," exploring questions like, is there a right to incite? Is there a moral duty to refrain from dangerous speech? Is it right to restrict or punish dangerous speech?
Given our current political climate, in which outgoing US President Donald Trump was impeached last week on the charge of incitement, and was banned from top social media platforms because of dangerous speech, I couldn’t think of a better person to ask on the show than Jeffrey Howard.
Resources:
Jeff's paper on Dangerous Speech
Book recommendation: On Liberty, by John Stuart Mill
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Sep 9, 2020
Plato's Horses
To close out the season, I’m delighted to have Dr Cara Heuser (@caraheuser) back on the show. As some listeners may remember, Cara was my guest on the pilot episode of the JNS in the spring, when we spoke about stepping up in times of crisis. Cara is a medical doctor; she’s an obstetrician who works with patients having high-risk pregnancies, and she’s also my sister.
I wanted to have Cara back on the show today to talk about two things. First, she is currently recovering from doing a live organ donation, in which she donated part of her liver to help an anonymous baby that she had never met. But, just like in our first episode, she doesn’t see this as particularly heroic; she just could, so she did.
Second, Cara has an essay coming out soon in the Green Journal (aka Obstetrics & Gynecology) on trying to balance reason and emotion as a medical professional, and in life in general. It was prompted by a specific experience she had, and I was interested to talk more with her abo…
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Aug 26, 2020
Keep Writing
As the coronavirus has surged across the United States, so have racist attacks against Asian Americans.
My guest this week is Jennifer Chen (@jchenwriter), a freelance journalist who has written two articles calling attention to this issue, drawing in part from her personal experiences. This isn’t the first time that Jenn has woven her personal experience into her writing on larger issues. A few years ago, she wrote an incredibly honest and moving piece about having a miscarriage that ended up going viral.
I wanted to have Jenn on the show to talk about these experiences and issues, but also about the purpose of writing in times of personal or collective crisis. Why is writing important? Why does telling our stories matter?
This episode starts with serious topics, but Jenn is a lot of fun, and by the end of the conversation we’re talking about pieces on good neighbors, her new Joy Ride newsletter, and more.
Resources:
Racist Attacks Against Asian Americans Are Still on The Ris…
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Aug 13, 2020
Being There
Middle school is pretty tough for most people at the best of times. During the coronavirus, being an adolescent can be really hard. Cut off from friends, school, activities, and routines, young people are finding themselves spending WAY more time at home than they or their families are used to. For some families, this isn’t a huge deal, but for a lot of kids living in difficult situations, or who rely on school for specific forms of support, this has been an especially tense time.
To discuss this more, I’m joined in this episode by Margaret Cacchione (@MargieCashh), a middle school guidance counselor in upstate New York. We talk about how the Covid situation is affecting kids, as well as other issues facing teenagers in their day to day lives even without corona, and how counselors like Margaret are trying to support kids and families as best they can, often in massively under-funded or under-resourced schools and districts. It’s impossible to state how much I admire the work th…
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Jul 30, 2020
Intersections
How do the ways we get around intersect (har!) with ethics, politics, and equality? How does something as seemingly banal as transportation impact major issues like poverty, climate, development, and security? Why are transportation systems often the focal point of protests and activism?
In this episode, I discuss these issues with Mark Norman, a transportation engineer who has spent decades looking at how the choices we make about how we get around, individually and collectively, impact people, policy, and communities. We also talk about Mark’s voluntary work helping people in difficult situations find jobs in the DC area.
Resources:
Highways that bulldozed black neighborhoods
Book recommendation:
East of Eden, by John Steinbeck
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Jul 16, 2020
Paying Attention
How does faith intersect with social justice? What is the role of churches, synogogues, mosques, and other religious organizations in times of crisis? To what extent has religion become politicized? As more people identify as secular, are we increasing the degree to which we channel our moral convictions into politics? And if so, are our politics better or worse for that?
Especially in the United States, religion and progressive politics often seem at odds with each other. When we talk about religion in politics, it’s often in the terms of the "religious right," or "Christian conservatives." But churches and other faith communities have at times been anchors for social justice, too, using the faith space as a springboard for activism. Should religious communities be “neutral,” or is there an obligation to take a stand on issues of injustice?
To explore these questions more, I’m joined in this episode by Reverend Andy Willis, the pastor of the English-speaking congregation of…
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Jul 1, 2020
Injustice Anywhere...
Do human rights campaigns work? Does advocacy from activists in the US or UK actually help political prisoners overseas get released?
In this episode, I’m delighted to be in conversation with Geoffrey Mock, the Egypt and Syria Country Specialist for Amnesty International USA. Geoffrey has been involved in human rights activism for over three decades. I wanted to have him on the show to talk about why people should care about political prisoners, how he started doing this work, and some of the ethical challenges and limitations of human rights advocacy.
Resources:
Amnesty International Country Profiles
Book recommendation:
Albert Hourani, A History of the Arab Peoples
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Jun 18, 2020
Breaking the Stigma
How might we have better conversations about tough topics like race, sexuality, religion, politics, and mental health? How can we reduce social stigma?
Today my guest is Dr. Adrienne Williams (@AAWilliamsPhD), a clinical health psychologist based in Chicago, who specializes in sexuality and gender. She provides therapy for anxiety and depression, and her work with sexuality and gender includes sexual abuse/assault, sexual orientation, and trans*gender care. She is a vocal advocate for primary mental health providers, and breaking down the stigma around mental health.
I wanted to speak with Adrienne about her general work and motivations in these areas, but I also wanted to speak with her about the challenges of mental health during Covid-19 and also during the BLM movement.
This is a fascinating and wide-ranging conversation. We discuss sexuality, faith, mental health, race, gender, and a whole lot more. One thing that I love about speaking with Adrienne is that she doesn’t shy a…
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Jun 11, 2020
Changing the Narrative
How do questions of race, justice, and equality transcend national borders? How is the past tied to the present? How do ideas that were once labelled ‘radical’ become mainstream?
In light of the ongoing Black Lives Matter movement for police reform and racial equality, I’m doing another special episode this week, featuring Dr. Esmorie Miller (@esmoriem), a Lecturer in Criminology at London South Bank University.
Esmorie has been looking at issues of race, justice, and policing for over 15 years, with a focus on young people. She looks at institutional policies around urban youth gangs; historical narratives on youth justice reform; policing surveillance in schools; and the role of race and gender in punishment. She has a forthcoming book on the role of race in youth justice, with a focus on the UK and Canada, so I wanted to speak with her partly about how and why BLM extends beyond the US borders.
But I also wanted to hear from Esmorie about how she, and other researchers in h…
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Jun 5, 2020
Uncomfortable Conversations
What does a process of institutional police reform look like? How do you build trust after years of distrust, resentment, and structural inequalities?
This is a bonus episode that I’m running in light of the ongoing protests taking place this week in the US and around the world, which have included widespread calls for police reform.
For this episode, I reached out to Roger McCallum in Belfast, Northern Ireland, who describes himself as a ‘former police person’ now engaged in peacebuilding and human rights. Roger was a police officer in Northern Ireland for 26 years, and most of that time was during the Troubles, the violent conflict that divided Northern Ireland for decades. Police played a significant role in the conflict; as an institution of the British state, they were seen as targeting Catholic and Nationalist communities, and they were also the frequent target of IRA violence.
As a result, police reform was a major part of Northern Ireland’s peace process, and Roger w…
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May 28, 2020
Hook Me Up
Nearly 1 billion people around the world lack access to electricity. What does this mean for hospitals and clinics in low-income countries trying to treat patients during Covid-19? In this episode, I speak with Dr. James Knuckles, from the World Bank’s Energy Sector Management Assistance Program (ESMAP), on the innovative ways the development sector is trying to connect communities, and why connectivity is so crucial right now. We also talk about how the virus is affecting the much needed movement of food and other goods in low-income countries, the ethical and pragmatic considerations of social enterprises, and broader challenges in working for sustainable development.
Resources:
Mini-Grids for a Half a Billion People
Book Recommendation:
Umberto Eco, The Name of the Rose
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May 13, 2020
Be the Change
What makes community work different from charity? How can those seeking to ‘do good’ avoid creating unintentional dynamics of us and them, of givers and receivers? In this episode, I discuss these questions with Liz Griffith, a community worker in Belfast, who works closely with refugees, asylum seekers, and victims of human trafficking in Northern Ireland. We talk about the current challenges facing communities in the time of the coronavirus, but our conversation ranges to include the moral tension of food banks, the problem of compassion fatigue, and the challenges of oppositional activism.
Resources:
http://www.belfastfriendshipclub.org/
https://flourishni.org/
Book recommendation: I Didn’t Do It For You, by Michela Wrong
https://www.harpercollins.com/9780060780937/i-didnt-do-it-for-you/
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Apr 27, 2020
They Call Us And We Go?
What are our moral obligations in times of crisis? Are those who step up heroes, or simply human? In this pilot episode, we delve into these questions with Dr Cara Heuser, a medical doctor on the frontlines of the corona virus. But our discussion goes beyond Covid-19 to grapple with bigger questions of altruism, vocation, and more.
Resources:
NEJM article: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2009027
William Carlos Williams poem: https://poets.org/poem/complaint-0
Recommended reading: Armageddon in Retrospect, by Kurt Vonnegut
Guest: Dr Cara Heuser (@caraheuser)
Host: Dr Julie Norman (@DrJulieNorman2)
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