Bye Robot, union-busting, and fraught foreign affairs
Play episode · 49 min

On this Democracy Sausage we take a look at the rollback of robodebt, paternalistic welfare policies, and the long history of the language of dole bludgers. Mark Kenny and the panel – Marija Taflaga, Frank Bongiorno, and Matthew Gray – also tackle the union-busting Ensuring Integrity Bill, whether government can be trusted with our data, and Australia’s increasingly fraught relationship with China.

Matthew Gray is Director of the Centre for Social Research and Methods at The Australian National University. He has particular expertise in work and family issues, labour economics, social capital and social inclusion, and economic policy development.

Frank Bongiorno is the Head of the School of History at The Australian National University and an Australian labour, political, and cultural historian. He is a Fellow of the Academy of Social Sciences in Australia.

Marija Taflaga is a lecturer in the ANU School of Politics and International Relations. Her major research is on political parties and particularly the Liberal Party of Australia. She has previously worked in the Australian Parliamentary Press Gallery as a researcher at The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.

Mark Kenny is a Senior Fellow in the ANU Australian Studies Institute. He came to the university after a high-profile journalistic career including six years as chief political correspondent and national affairs editor for The Sydney Morning HeraldThe Age, and The Canberra Times.

Democracy Sausage with Mark Kenny is available on Apple PodcastsSpotifyGoogle Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We’d love to hear your feedback for this podcast series! Send in your questions, comments, or suggestions for future episodes to You can also Tweet us @APPSPolicyForum or join us on the Facebook group.

This podcast is produced in partnership with The Australian National University.


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Politics with Michelle Grattan
Politics with Michelle Grattan
The Conversation
Politics with Michelle Grattan: economist Danielle Wood on Australia's 'blokey' budget
Mick Tsikas/AAP In his budget reply, Anthony Albanese said women have suffered most during the pandemic, but were reduced to a footnote in the budget. He promised a Labor government would undertake a generous reshaping of the childcare subsidy to enable more women to join the workforce or to work more hours. This week, Michelle Grattan talks to Grattan Institute CEO Danielle Wood who, in writing for the Australian Financial Review, described the budget as “blokey”: “We look at those areas that have received direct support - construction… the energy sector, defence, manufacturing, all of those areas where the government has put direct money into a particular sector - they tend to be male dominated sectors. "And actually often they’re not the ones that have taken the hardest hit in this recession. "The sectors that have been hit really hard: hospitality, tourism, the arts, recreation, administrative services tend to be actually slightly more female dominated… we really don’t see any direct assistance for those sectors in the budget. ” When asked about the budget generally Wood, the president of the Economic Society of Australia, is concerned all the eggs have been put into the “private sector basket”. “If it doesn’t pay off, then we may see unemployment sticking around for a long time to come.” In the Grattan institute’s report, co-authored by Wood, and titled Cheaper Childcare, Wood endorsed reform in a similar vein to Albanese’s proposal. “Our numbers suggest that for every dollar that you spend reforming the subsidy…you return more than two dollars in additional GDP,” she says. “The Labor reforms… you’re probably talking, if its $2 billion a year… something in the vicinity of $5 billion return each year for GDP.” Additional audio A List of Ways to Die, Lee Rosevere, from Free Music Archive. Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
17 min
A Rational Fear
A Rational Fear
Dan Ilic
"We Got Free Postage" Aus Post CEO — Teanau Tuiono, Nina Oyama, Greta Lee-Jackson, Dan Ilic, Lewis Hobba — Oct 23rd
🤑 CHIP IN TO OUR PATREON📨 SUBSCRIBE TO OUR EMAIL LIST: If you want to support the podcast and take your car carbon neutral, with GoNeutral here: Talking Aus Post CEO's $12000 Cartier Watches, Chris Pratt, and the New Zealand Election with freshly elected Greens MP Teanau Tuiono Nina Oyama Greta Lee-Jackson Lewis Hobba Dan Ilic + Teanau Tuiono   Thanks:Big thanks to The Bertha Foundation, our Patreon Supporters and RODE Mics. Jacob Round, and Maddie Palmer, Adam Boys, Killian David, Cam Williams TRANSLATION BY OTTER.AI Unknown Speaker  0:00   This podcast is supported in part by the birth of foundation. Unknown Speaker  0:04   Jay Lewis. Hello, Daniel, how Dan Ilic  0:06   are you? Excellent. We've got a brand new streaming system. It's very exciting. I just want to quickly say big thanks to our Patreon supporters, Chris ebeling and Tim Chima who signed up this week. To support Patreon supporters, you can go to for slash irrational fear. Another way you can support a rational fear is to offset the carbon emissions from your car with go neutral for every $90 sticker. Go neutral will carbon offset 3.5 tonnes which is incredible. And then five bucks comes to us and since we've started the partnership, Louis, we have actually gotten 11 people to offset the carbon emissions from their car. That's 38 tonnes of carbon thanks to this podcast gone. Lewis Hobba  0:45   That is amazing. Fixed. Take that Paris accord. Dan Ilic  0:51   We do have about 3000 people that do listen to this. So you know if they all did it, we'd be able to pull out you know, 10,000 tonnes of carbon. Lewis Hobba  0:59   That's great. That's really great. And then we just made enough money to be able to afford a zoo membership and then we'll be all good. Dan Ilic  1:05   To go neutral. Click on the links in the show notes. I'm recording my end of irrational fear on gadigal land in the your nation, sovereignty was never ceded. We need a treaty. Let's stop the shark. ALAN JONES  1:17   A Russian mafia contains naughty words like bricks can bro fed gum and section 40 of a rational fear recommended listening by immature audience. Dan Ilic  1:30   Tonight, a New Yorker writer was suspended of allegations of masturbating on a zoom call but according to insiders, he was just after a race. And ABC journalist Laura tingle is supposed to apologise after labelling Scott Morrison smug on Twitter, because ABC editorial style insists that when labelling the Prime Minister smug it must be followed by and with the launch of the new Sacha Baron Cohen movie today, Health Authority is a warning that ball rat voice will begin to spread When asked if bore at voice had infected anyone yet a senior health official answered my wife. It's Friday the 23rd of October and everything is very dies. This is irrational fear. Looking irrational fear. I'm your host former Vatican City Cardinal Denny let's let's meet our fear mongers for tonight. She's a writer, performer, comedian, director. You may know her from her appearances on utopia to nightly and the chaser podcast. Or you may have just seen her jokes about common social media. It's Nina ayama. Hello, welcome Nina. How's it going? Oh, it's great. It's really great to have you. I didn't Nina Oyama  2:45   know who was gonna be like I was like waiting for the credits or else it was good. Like Unknown Speaker  2:52   Who is it? Who is it? Dan Ilic  2:55   It's pretty much the same. She's one of Australia's funniest people though. She was born in New Zealand, but thankfully she's chosen one of our people to breed with. From tonight lay and drunk history. It's comedian satirist and filmmaker. grittily Jackson, Greta Lee-Jackson  3:07   Daniel Lewis tonight Naina Unknown Speaker  3:10   it's great to have you. Lewis Hobba  3:12   And it's a we feel I feel particularly Brady Bunch today. I think normally with like our old zoom system when we could afford it. It was like much more in line. And now we're all in a little box together and I feel like we just need Alice Nina Oyama  3:29   you've never you've never graduated to grid mode Lewis there was no way you can you can have a Brady Bunch look on zoom to Unknown Speaker  3:39   I don't want to know about options. You know what I mean? I Nina Oyama  3:42   really I'm the opposite. I'm out here changing my background, you know, causing causing a ruckus changing my screen name to stupid slot and then going into a work meeting. Lewis Hobba  3:54   Yeah, you should work at the New Yorker. Nina Oyama  3:57   than that, no, I would have to take my screen. I'm just stupid, ya know, Lewis Hobba  4:08   tilting the camera down and putting your head down. It is a real Giuliani situation. You're gonna have to you're gonna have to, Unknown Speaker  4:16   sorry, sorry, I thought I was on mute. Dan Ilic  4:22   Coming up, we have to face in fees, but also a little later on. We're gonna be talking to Tiana Tiana. He's a greens MP who just want to sit in the New Zealand election at Palmerston North. It's going to be exciting. We're gonna be asking him why New Zealand labour insists on spelling their name correctly, and how we can all move to New Zealand. But first of all, I don't know if you've seen this. Alan Jones is back in the news. Not only did he go on Sky this weekend has it covered. 19 was an epidemic but he's actually suing our friends at the feed. Have you guys seen this? for defamation? Yeah. Do you guys want to sign anything or just leave it up to me Unknown Speaker  5:00   On this well, Dan Ilic  5:01   Alan Jones had something to say about this a little earlier on this week. ALAN JONES  5:09   Good morning, everyone. Yes, it is true. I'm suing SPS for defamation. What he you asked SPS. You can be defamed if there's any three people watching TV and they can't speak English. I totally agree with you. They're hypothetical Lister. But their little skit went on the internet with a potential audience of 7 billion in the videos so called comedian Alex Lee portrayed me as a misogynist, racist and a liar. Now Miss Lee who happens to be an Asian woman Mind you, is totally wrong. Let me tell you something, just because I go around saying misogynistic things doesn't make me a misogynist. Whatever sojourners insist that a woman Prime Minister be put in a chat bag and be thrown out to say yes, but also can someone who isn't a misogynist suggest that too unlikely, but it's a possibility. And just because I incited the largest ever race riot in Australian history, it doesn't make me a racist. If anything, I'm pro race, more races the barrier. I have a long history of loving races, particularly the Everest, the richest horse race in Australia. And let me tell you, just because I constantly lie about climate change doesn't make me a liar. I'm telling you my truth and my truth is the opposite of whatever the facts are. If the scientists say it's climate change, they're wrong. If the medical experts say it's a pandemic, they're wrong. If the views ecologists say that Anthony Claire is overrated, they are so wrong. What a voice. So let this be a warning to any tree hugging comedians out there. If I'm a racist, misogynist liar, then my name isn't Alan Jones. I'm Alan Jones. Dan Ilic  6:46   There we go. Alan Jones, thank you very much. Nina Oyama  6:48   You haven't been sued for your impersonation of Alan Jones. Maybe your entire career did and and he just hasn't given a fuck I've been trying. That's the Dan Ilic  6:59   only way I can get listeners to this podcast is to be sued and no one's done it. It's terrible. It's terrible. Well, let's get on with the fears first fear tonight. Yesterday, it said it estimates the CEO of Australia Post admitted that she gave for senior staff watches valued at $3,000 each, because they worked very hard. T…
30 min
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