E34: The Consumer Rights Revolution with Joshua Browder of DoNotPay
Play • 1 hr 34 min

In this episode, Nathan sits down with Joshua Browder of DoNotPay, the world’s first robot lawyer. They chat about the current state of AI use in law, what policymakers should consider in regulating AI, and the ethics of robo-lawyers for consumer use. 

We're hiring across the board at Turpentine and for Erik's personal team on other projects he's incubating. He's hiring a Chief of Staff, EA, Head of Special Projects, Investment Associate, and more. For a list of JDs, check out: eriktorenberg.com.


The HR industry is at a crossroads. What will it take to construct the next generation of incredible businesses – and where can people leaders have the most business impact? Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners, Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors. Check out the first episode with the architect of Netflix’s culture deck Patty McCord.



(00:00) Episode Preview

(03:22) Joshua Browder and the story of DoNotPay

(04:50) The value incurred through an AI lawyer

(07:17) What are the legal and financial injustices that motivates Joshua’s work?

(12:46) How does the AI negotiate with a Comcast chat agent?

(16:28) Consumer security

(17:12) Sponsor: Omneky

(21:08) The ethics of DoNotPay

(22:27) Should AI need to disclose that it’s AI?

(24:47) How much human intervention is necessary in AI tooling?

(27:15) Where does the burden of proof lie for AI regulation and ethics?

(31:47) Advice to policymakers

(35:45) AI Liability

(38:05) AI Arms Race

(43:46) Productive bot interactions

(45:00) AI-powered arbitration

(49:28) How the consumer experience might change two years from now

(51:45) AI Superapps

(55:25) Moats in AI

(57:11) How much money does DoNotPay save people today?

(59:30) Consumer and enterprise timelines given AI

(01:06:30) What will AI replace?

(01:09:34) Impact of AI in different industries

(01:11:10) The legal field’s view of AI

(01:15:50) Deflationary factors in running DoNotPay

(01:25:00) What are non-obvious ways to save money?

(01:27:55) Joshua’s favorite AI tools

(01:28:17) Would Joshua get a Neuralink implant?




@jbrowder1 (Joshua)

@DoNotPay (DoNotPay)


@labenz (Nathan)

@eriktorenberg (Erik)


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More show notes and reading material released in our Substack: https://cognitiverevolution.substack.com

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