Karen and Irma discuss how to craft a good sentence. Then Irma talks to Eliza Henry-Jones about why ‘paddock beanbagging’ is her preferred way to write, how writing a novel every year since she was 14 helped her understand her world, how difficult it was to first be published at the age of 25, why as a writer she is a ‘chaos demon’, how having a child changed her as a writer, why she wrote Salt and Skin from a place of rage, the challenges of writing ‘unlikeable’ female characters, why she resisted Scrivener and then fell in love with it.