Episode #17: It's Not You It's the Workplace with Andie Kramer and Al Harris
Play • 30 min

Episode 17: Show Notes.

It's not a secret that stereotypes and biases exist, but how can workplaces create systems and processes where gendered characterizations are stripped away to create more equitable, merit-based environments? This question is one which Andie Kramer and Al Harris address in their new book, It’s Not You, It’s the Workplace. 

As gender-bias experts, attorneys, and speakers, Andie and Al have dedicated their research efforts to understand the influence that stereotypes have on the way women are treated. In this episode, we discuss what sparked their interest in gender-biased workplaces, and what they learned about the issues women had with one another in the workplace. This unexpected finding led them to question myths like the 'mean girl', where women leaders are frequently characterized as bitchy and unpleasant because they are not fulfilling misplaced expectations that stem from stereotypes. 

We also consider how the small number of leadership roles for women fuel competition by pitting women up against one another. Along with this, we explore the importance of methods and practices that work to remove the subjectivities that always hurt women in the workplace. Although these problems are systemic and require more than a one-time workshop, Andie and Al offer ways that women can support themselves and one another in the absence of organizational reform. To hear more about this important work, be sure to tune in today!  

Key Points From This Episode:

  • What Andie learned in her time on her law firm’s compensation and management committee.
  • The research that Andie and Al explored in their first book, Breaking Through Bias.
  • Surprising findings of experiences that women have with other women in the workplace.
  • The misplaced expectations that are placed on women leaders around being nice and kind.
  • These stereotypes are deeply ingrained in us, and getting past them is hard.
  • The ‘Goldilocks dilemma’ — Balancing between nice and being assertive.
  • Debunking the 'mean girl' myth and how we can move past this.
  • How the limited seats at the leadership table lead to competition among women.
  • The difficulty that senior women face bringing junior women up with them.
  • Exploring what Andie and Al refer to as ‘the three separate trains leaving the station.’
  • Finding ways to prevent bias from influencing the trajectory of people’s careers.
  • Some ways to remove biases from evaluation and hiring procedures.
  • What women can do right now to cope with the gender-biased workplaces.

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:

Create Your Leading Edge Challenge

Andie & Al

Andie & Al on Twitter

Andie Kramer on LinkedIn

Al Harris on LinkedIn

ITSPmagazine

It's Not You It's the Workplace

Breaking Through Bias

Goldman Sachs

Kim O'Grady adds "mister" to his resume, gets a job


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