Property Podcast
Property Podcast
Dec 6, 2020
Get Past Your Fear and Simplify Your Strategy with Lianna Pan
Play • 34 min
In this episode, Pan, whose incredible research and analytical skills have enabled her to build an impressive portfolio holding over 26 properties so far, explains how she set and met her goal to retire her parents comfortably, retired from her own corporate career early to help people achieve their financial freedom, and she shares the simple trick to buying property right, giving you the tools to do the same.

Timestamps:
2:33 | DATA SKILLS HAVE PLAYED A VITAL ROLE IN HER SUCCESS
8:10 | LIANNA SAID GOODBYE TO HER DAD FOR SEVEN YEARS
9:27 | HER PARENTS’ SACRIFICE FUELLED LIANNA’S MOTIVATION TO ACHIEVE FINANCIAL FREEDOM.
14:27 | LIANNA STUDIED HARD TO ACHIEVE TOP GRADES.
16:37 | STUDYING FULL TIME AND WORKING THREE JOBS, HOW DID SHE MANAGE IT ALL?
18:25 | PAN GRABBED EVERY OPPORTUNITY SHE COULD TO BETTER HER FINANCIAL POSITION.
23:48 | SHE SOON REALIZED SHE NEEDED TO THINK OUTSIDE OF THE BOX
26:14 | PAN USED HER DATA SKILLS TO DETERMINE IF AN INVESTMENT WOULD BE SUCCESSFUL.
27:45 | LIANNA HAD TO OVERCOME A LOT OF FEAR BEFORE SHE WAS ABLE TO COMMIT TO AN INVESTMENT.
31:06 | FROM $400,000 TO A MILLION.
33:12 | PAN’S RENOVATION STRATEGY DIDN’T WORK OUT AS PLANNED.
34:28 | SHE WENT THROUGH MANY SLEEPLESS NIGHTS DURING THIS TIME.

Resources and Links:


Transcript:
Lianna Pan:
(23:59) Very quickly, I did the math and sort of realised that wasn't going to be it. And it was just quite a moment of, I guess, revelation. You’ve got to do something else. 

**INTRO MUSIC**

Tyrone Shum:
This is Property Investory where we talk to successful property investors to find out more about their stories, mindset and strategies.

I’m Tyrone Shum and in this episode we’re speaking with Property Investor and retired Actuary Lianna Pan, whose incredible research and analytical skills have enabled her to build an impressive portfolio holding over 26 properties. Lianna explains how she retired from her corporate career early, shares the simple trick to buying property, giving you the tools to do the same. 

**END INTRO MUSIC**

**START BACKGROUND MUSIC**

Tyrone Shum:
Pan has spent the last decade setting herself goals and working toward creating financial freedom through her impressive portfolio. Now that she’s achieved just that, she’s working on some new goals. 

Lianna Pan:
(0:30) I've actually built a portfolio of about 26 properties now over the past 12 years, and retired myself from my corporate career as an actuary. And now with ‘Freedom Property Investors’, which I've co-founded with my business partner, Scott Kuru, we're helping a community, the community of investors, to do the same as well.

Tyrone Shum: 
It sounds like great work. So how does Pan spend her time day to day?

Lianna Pan:
(1:14) A typical day would look like, I mean, data plays a big part in my day. So I worked for example, I would have yesterday spent a lot of time learning about the budget and the implications that I have on the economy and the property markets, I'll do a fair bit of reading and research in a day.

(1:35) And then also, I have a research team that helps assist me with all of that stuff. So I work with them on a day to day basis. And negotiations are also a big part of my day as well, which is something I really enjoy. So, you know, to get fantastic deals for our members. Yeah, so that will probably be a typical day. 

Tyrone Shum: 
(1:58) That's amazing. And there's so much data, especially in this information overload. How do you pull this data together, and then go, ‘Okay, that's where we should be heading’?

Lianna Pan:  
(2:12) I'm actually extremely grateful for the career that I had as a data scientist. And it’s actually our whole job. And our training is about how to make sense of a lot of data and very complex data and how to actually understand and find patterns within that data. And using that to actually predict the future.

DATA SKILLS HAVE PLAYED A VITAL ROLE IN HER SUCCESS

(2:33) So I used to work for insurance companies, like, QBE and Almay, and so forth. And banks, such as Suncorp, and lots of financial institutions, and we were hired to do just that, to actually predict what is going to happen if for example, we do premium, we will be helping insurance companies set the right premiums for motor insurance or content insurance, for example. 

(3:06) So a lot of life modelling is involved. And understanding data is a big part of our role. So that skill set really has helped me enormously when you can apply that to any context and then decide to apply that to property.

Tyrone Shum:
Taking a step back, we discuss Pan’s upbringing and childhood experience. 

Lianna Pan:
(3:39) I was born in China, actually in the southern part of China, and I was in China until I was about 14. And then I came to Australia. And I came from a very, very humble beginning. My parents, just to tell you an interesting story, my parents when they first got married in China, they actually didn't have anywhere to live. 

(4:03) And so my grandparents took them in and built a room on top of my grandparents' really old house. So there was no permit, nothing like that. They just built like a makeshift room. And my parents thought it was gonna be temporary. But I ended up growing up there. I spent probably over 10 years there. And I had a great childhood. 

(4:30) I mean, my parents gave me everything they could but I didn't understand, you know, that was what poverty meant, until much later on in life. But that was our beginning. I still remember as a little toddler, I was playing in that room and running around in that room and I remember feeling that the building was shaking. One of my very clear childhood memories.

Tyrone Shum: 
(4:56) Wow. So you grew up and went to school in China as well. Which part of China in the south did you say?

Lianna Pan: 
(5:03) Fujian Province? Not far from Taiwan actually.

Tyrone Shum: 
(5:07) I know where that is. My parents have gone back there, my mother is originally from Quanzhou. So yeah, that's why I've been back there to visit and have a look into going back to those Provinces. It's just history because we like to find out where our background comes from, too. It's obviously changed a lot. And there's been, you know, so much growth there as well. Have you been back there since then?

Lianna Pan:
(5:30) Yeah, I've been back a few times. And the city that I grew up in is unrecognisable today. It’s just amazing how much can change in a short space of time in China.

Tyrone Shum:
(5:44) So much,  as I guess China has moved very, very fast in such a short period of time, it's grown exponentially, you know, with that kind of growth. So growing up in China, and also going to school, tell me a little bit more about your schooling, what was that like?

Lianna Pan:
(6:00) Yes, the thing with being in China, all the parents, they wanted the best for their children. And mine were no exception. So from a very, very young age, my mom, for example, really just taught me how you’ve got to really apply yourself and study hard. So I just remember that I was always studying as a little kid.

(6:26) And I was always a very good student, very well behaved and good student at school. So that's probably one of the biggest things, and I'm extremely grateful for my parents for instilling that sort of discipline in myself at a young age.

Tyrone Shum:  
Pan was well equipped with some great habits at a young age, which came in handy when she moved to Australia. 

Lianna Pan: 
(7:07) I went to high school in China. Then, obviously, halfway through that, I came to Australia and had to study a whole new language, and went to language school for about a year, before enrolling in the mainstream high school. So it was a very interesting and difficult time transitioning, but I guess it's the same thing most migrant children will go through. 

Tyrone Shum: 
(7:34) Do you know why? Why did your parents and your whole family migrate to Australia?

Lianna Pan:
(7:39) Yeah, so this goes back to how my parents really wanted to create a better financial future. And provide me with more opportunity as a single child, provide me with more opportunities in the future. So when I was seven, my parents made a really tough decision to send my dad out to Australia. They had to borrow money from friends and family to send him out.

LIANNA SAID GOODBYE TO HER DAD FOR SEVEN YEARS

(8:10) And basically, my dad worked extremely hard in Australia, we didn't see him for seven years. Like he didn't literally come back for seven years. And he would be working like three jobs, just to save up as much as he possibly could and send all the money home. So it was a very difficult, challenging time for our family. 

(8:30) And I always remember, like, you know, one of the things I always remember was that my dad would write letters home all the time. And so for seven long years, my father would write letters home all the time, like, every couple of days, we'd get a letter from him. And my mom would actually read it to herself first, but then read it to the whole family. 

(8:58) So that was kind of like a ritual for us, for me growing up, and I would often catch my mom every now and then just reading the letters, and crying to herself. So really, it was a tough time, especially for my parents, there was just so much sacrifice. Today, I can't imagine sacrificing so much, but this is something that I guess my parents generation goes through. 

HER PARENTS’ SACRIFICE FUELLED LIANNA’S MOTIVATION TO ACHIEVE FINANCIAL FREEDOM.

(9:27) And so I've always been very, very grateful for what they've done for me and from a very early age have really wanted to make them proud. So you know, by studying really hard and doing the best I could, and also getting on to a great career so that they don't have to worry about retirement, and finding ways in which I can create financial freedom for my parents and myself.

(9:59) Yep. So I set them up for retirement. That was a really big goal and motivation for me for the past 10-15 years. 

Tyrone Shum:
(10:08) Yeah. And you've definitely achieved that, you know, it's so great to hear that story. It's amazing what you’ve been able to achieve, and also what your parents have also been able to achieve for you. Maybe this would be sort of an ignorant question for me to ask about, but were there phones besides you? Did you ever get to talk to your father during the seven years?

Lianna Pan:  
(10:26) Yes, yes. If you remember, back in the 90s, there were no mobile phones or anything like that. And so every week or two weeks, my dad had to actually queue up at the local Telstra phone booth, just unimaginable these days, but the international phone calls used to be so expensive, that's why he used to write.

(10:51) And he would allow himself like, you know, a few minutes each week. And queue up, like all the other people that were doing similar things and just to talk to my family. So there was always a very emotional time. Like it was a special occasion, once a week that we get to talk to our dad.

Tyrone Shum:
(11:11) Yeah, it's heartbreaking for me just to hear that, I mean, it brings tears to my eyes. I can't imagine how your mom must have felt for quite a long time, you know, not to have your father with you side by side. But just to be able to talk, you know, that once a week or twice every two weeks or so it's, it's quite touching to be able to hear that story as well. 

Lianna Pan: 
(11:38) Yeah absolutely. And if you look at my parents today, they are still so in love after, what, 30 [or] 40 years of marriage. It's incredible. And because they've been through so much together that you know, I actually found that an incredibly strong bond. 

Tyrone Shum:  
After an inspiring sacrifice, the family eventually reconnected when she and her mum immigrated to Australia. 

Lianna Pan: 
(12:20) So I've always been in Sydney. Ever since I moved to Australia. I've always been in Sydney. So yeah, that's where my dad was. And he was working at a factory as well. So yeah, he was a boilermaker.

Tyrone Shum: 
(12:34) Oh, okay. Explain to me, I haven't heard boilermaker for a long, long time. But maybe some of the audience might never know what that is. But explain to people what kind of job is that?

Lianna Pan:
(12:45) It's like welding. So it's usually big steel works. I can't remember the factory that he used to work for a very long time in. And it was, like, big industrial buildings. Yeah, I can't really remember the name. But that's the work that he used to do. Lots of manual labour, like very heavy lifting, you know? So it was tough. It was tough. 

Tyrone Shum: 
(13:19) And mum, did she look after you, take you to school? And did she also go to work as well? 

Lianna Pan:
(13:25) Yeah, she used to work as well, and just sort of did whatever she could get. Whatever work she could get. And when I was 18 [or] 19. They started a little business, a convenience store. And they must have been in that business for more than 10 [or] 15 years. Just until before they retired.

Tyrone Shum:
Being a non-English speaker, to begin with, Pan struggled to find her feet in high school. 

Lianna Pan: 
(14:04) I think the transitioning cultural shock was the first part of it. But with my high school, I think that they have really good programmes for immigrant children. So they really took good care of us. So it made the transition easier.

LIANNA STUDIED HARD TO ACHIEVE TOP GRADES.

(14:27) And then it was just about again, how I wanted to do really well out of high school. So that academic learning was my main focus. I remember going to weekend schools to improve my learning. And I took up like four subjects when I was in year 10, for example.

(14:52) Year 12 subjects I did maths olympiad, physics olympiad, all that sort of stuff. Just trying to do the best I could. And I really got into it. And, you know, I had always been a very keen student and I felt that it was really rewarding for me as well to get into the habit of learning. It became a passion and a hobby.

Tyrone Shum: 
Pan took her academic strengths further and enrolled in a university degree, but going from high school to university level wasn't as effortless as she had imagined. 

Lianna Pan:  
(15:46) Yeah, it was an interesting transition. I think actuarial science was one of those things where you have to get like 99 or above just to get into that degree. So you came from an environment where you’re basically the top of your class all the time, to an environment where everybody was, like, really amazing. 

(16:06) So you're competing with that. And so that was a bit of a shock. That took time to transition. But also, because I was very competitive, it just really made me step up so at university, I also set myself a goal that I really wanted to get myself started on, you know, saving as much as I could, as well. So I was also working three part time jobs at university. 

STUDYING FULL TIME AND WORKING THREE JOBS, HOW DID SHE MANAGE IT ALL?

(16:37) And luckily, the university gave me a lot of opportunities. So I was working as a tutor, I was tutoring younger students, year one students and so forth. Because by that time, I had done a lot of uni work before coming into uni. Especially in the area of maths. So that that worked out really well for me. 

(16:57) And, you know, I was just saving as hard as I could, because I wanted to set myself up as quickly as possible and set my parents up. That was another thing my parents taught me is the discipline of saving. And that's something, again, I’m incredibly grateful for.

**ADVERTISEMENT**

Tyrone Shum:
Coming up after the break, we learn about Pan’s transition into the working world. 

Lianna Pan:
(21:30) Yeah, it was pretty tough. I remember the time that they basically only really looked at applicants with a certain grade point average as well. So it was a tough job market.

Tyrone Shum:
We discuss her motivations to invest around the time of the Global Financial Crisis.

Lianna Pan:
(25:42) And so what I was looking at, at the time, was just from historical data, you can see there are certain patterns in that data. And I knew that back in 2008, especially at the onset of GFC, it was a great time to invest.

Tyrone Shum:
We find out what finally made her overcome her fear of investing.

Lianna Pan:
(28:01) And one of my mentors actually said to me, ‘Hey, Lianna, have you noticed that you're always looking for reasons not to buy? Have you ever thought about why you do it? 

Tyrone Shum:
And that’s next. I’m Tyrone Shum and you’re listening to Property Investory.

**END ADVERTISEMENT**

Tyrone Shum:
During her university days, Pan studied a full-time triple-degree and managed to work three jobs while doing it. She tells us a little about those jobs. 

Lianna Pan: 
(17:43) One was as a tutor. So at uni, you could tutor classes. So when I was in year two in uni, for example, I was tutoring year one students, and so forth. And so I did three degrees as well, which really helped. So that meant I could choose to do lots of different disciplines.

(18:06) I was tutoring some statistics, economics and math subjects at uni. And that really supported me because I could just easily go to one of my lectures and then finish my lecture or go to a tutoring class. So that was one. The other one was actually as IT support at the university library.

PAN GRABBED EVERY OPPORTUNITY SHE COULD TO BETTER HER FINANCIAL POSITION.

(18:25) And that really helped as well. So there were just quite a few tutoring jobs for different departments. And then also IT support. So it really helped because all my jobs were actually on campus. So it made things a lot easier, otherwise, it would have been pretty difficult. At one stage, I think in year two, I was doing about 60 hour weeks. And I wouldn't have been able to do that if it wasn't on campus. 

Tyrone Shum: 
(18:54) I was gonna say imagining the amount of travelling you would have to go from. That's phenomenal. I mean, how did you manage to fit three degrees in? You're amazing.

Lianna Pan: 
(19:08) Yeah. I was just basically a massive nerd.

Tyrone Shum: 
(19:16) Oh, you've done exceptionally well. How long were you at university for?

Lianna Pan: 
(19:22) Four years.

Tyrone Shum: 
(19:23) So wow, okay. Yeah, that's exceptional. I mean, I mostly hear of people doing double degrees in five years, you’ve managed to do three degrees in four years. So you're obviously you know, at that level, where you're able to install these things very quickly, and be able to put them through to memory.

Lianna Pan: 
(19:39) Oh, I cram a fair bit of stuff in. But you know, like a normal degree will give you maybe 12 contact hours or something. So you can actually do double or triple degrees, and that would just mean double, triple the contact hours. It’s hard. But you can still make things work through use of your time.

Tyrone Shum: 
After years of hard work, and coming out of university with plenty of options, Pan settled into a career as an Actuary. 

Lianna Pan: 
(20:31) Um, the actuary degree was the main thing I did. I did a finance degree and computer science and it really helped me because you made all these skills. An actuary degree is multidisciplinary. So the whole idea with training was basically statistician's, economists, and a whole lot of disciplines rolled into one. 

(20:55) And we need to have programming skills as well. So the more you know about this, the better equipped you for a career. So I started with QBE. It was my first job as a graduate. So I went straight into that from university, and then I’ve just been on the actuarial career ever since.

Tyrone Shum:
(21:17) Was there like a Graduate Programme? Or was that like a full time graduate role?

Lianna Pan:
(21:20) It was just a full time role. 

Tyrone Shum:
(21:22) Was it hard to actually get into work after you finished your studies? Because I guess the job market going back then to what, 10 [or] 20 years ago, was probably not great.

Lianna Pan:
(21:30) Yeah, it was pretty tough. I remember the time that they basically only really looked at applicants with a certain grade point average as well. So it was a tough job market. I think it is tougher now. Just because there's a lot of consolidation of the insurance companies and there's actually more supply. Like there's more graduates coming out. But it was tough, even back then. Yeah.

Tyrone Shum: 
(22:02) Which year was that when you graduated and went into QBE? 

Lianna Pan: 
(22:06) I think it was 2006 or 2007? I think it was just a year or so before the GFC. Yeah, yeah. But I was lucky. I got in before the GFC.

Tyrone Shum:  
(22:17) I’m just asking because I graduated probably about a few years before you in computer science. And even then, it was a struggle to try and get anything in IT, because you know, with the tech boom, and everything kind of changing, it was all impacted. And then I assume that the market was just you know, a bit buoyant at that time. That's fascinating. So you were working at QBE? How long did you stay there for?

Lianna Pan: 
(22:37) A couple of years? Yeah. And then I moved on to other insurance companies. And I just sort of moved between insurance companies and banks.

Tyrone Shum: 
(22:46) Yeah. So overall, how long did your career span within the actuary and cycle data science area?

Lianna Pan: 
(22:53) So about seven years? Between seven and eight years? Yeah.

**MUSIC BREAK**

Tyrone Shum:
Moving on to property, Pan shares the story of her first investment. 

Lianna Pan:  
(23:16) I started investing property in 2008, actually, in the middle of the GFC.

Tyrone Shum: 
(23:23) One year into the workforce?

Lianna Pan:
(23:24) Yep. Yeah, about a year. So I was just like, wanting to save enough. And at that point in time being an actuary as well, one of the things we actually learn is analysing all asset classes. That's just basically what we do with our learning. So I did that as well, because very quickly you kind of learn that  you can't save your way to financial freedom. 

SHE SOON REALIZED SHE NEEDED TO THINK OUTSIDE OF THE BOX

(23:48) If you do the projections, you know, superannuation wasn't enough, they’re just putting money aside and putting it into a deposit, that wasn't going to be enough. Very quickly, I did the math and sort of realised that wasn't going to be it. And it was just quite a moment of, I guess, revelation. You’ve got to do something else. 

(24:08) And because I was already in the world of assets and investments and stuff that really made me aware of all the options out there, I analysed all the different options, and property was hands down the best by far, from a numbers perspective. I'll get into that a little bit later. But yeah, that's that's basically what I thought, that I gotta save for my first deposit.

Tyrone Shum:  
(24:35) It's really interesting, because I think you're the first person to actually point that out. Like, you're very logical, you're data driven, and you've actually worked it all out. A lot of people just go, ‘I gotta get a property because it's my first time’. Or, ‘I gotta get a property because I need to plan for the future’, but you're able to analyse and see all the different asset classes, you know, from shares to businesses and so forth. 

(24:54) And I guess the power of having that knowledge was that you're driven by the data which you know, is obviously what's happened there. So looking at purchasing that first property in 2008 during the GFC, maybe just share with us a little bit of background. How did you find this first property? You know, where did you start? Because it was all new to you, wasn’t it?

Lianna Pan: 
(25:15) Yeah, the property it was new, the principles of the analytics behind it, which is actually a pricing, or like a prediction methodology, which are developed over the years and refined and perfected. That wasn't new to me, because it's just about applying the same principles, but to a different asset class. 

(25:42) And so what I was looking at, at the time, was just from historical data, you can see there are certain patterns in that data. And I knew that back in 2008, especially at the onset of GFC, it was a great time to invest. So one of the things you'll find in historical data, and not just in Australia, but overseas as well, is that every economic shock produces a property boom, or, there's a property boom that follows every economic shock. 

PAN USED HER DATA SKILLS TO DETERMINE IF AN INVESTMENT WOULD BE SUCCESSFUL.

(26:14) And I think, you know, if you look at our historical housing data, going back 100 years, it happens every single time. It happened right after the Spanish Flu in the 1900s, for example. There was a property boom after that, and I was like, ‘Wow, that was an amazing, amazing discovery’. And that was the right time to get into the property market. So I knew that it was the right time. And it was just about doing a lot of property research.

(26:44) And also just having the guts to make the first step right, knowing the numbers, knowing all that theory behind you, there's still a whole other piece of work, which is mindset, pushing yourself to do it. So I've had from day one, I thought to myself, look, I wanted to learn from people that already did it, and could really have the results that I wanted to achieve.

(27:10) And no offence to anyone of my, you know, parents or family or friends. But there was no one in my peer group or family that I could model from. And so I actually spent $10,000 of my hard earned savings and paid for a lot of mentoring and coaching. 

(27:30) Yeah, more one-on-one mentoring coaching rather than just attending courses and stuff, because I needed someone to sort of knock me over the head or like, bang my head against the wall and say, ‘Hey, you need to act, not just prepare to act.’

LIANNA HAD TO OVERCOME A LOT OF FEAR BEFORE SHE WAS ABLE TO COMMIT TO AN INVESTMENT. 

(27:45) And I remember conversations I had with my mentor after like, I passed up dozens of properties, even though I knew it was the right time to invest. But for some reason, I always managed to find reasons to not go ahead with one property because it wasn't perfect.

(28:01) And one of my mentors actually said to me, ‘Hey, Lianna, have you noticed that you're always looking for reasons not to buy? Have you ever thought about why you do it? It's like you’re asking a million questions, but a lot of them are not relevant and they don't tie into a big picture at all’. 

(28:21) And really got me thinking, it sort of hit me over the head and got me thinking that, wow, this is just my fear manifesting itself. And it was. I could be forgiven for feeling fear, because you just have to turn on the TV at that time in 2008.

(28:41) And it's just all doom and gloom, there was just no good news whatsoever. There were so many, so called foreign experts coming to our country and saying that we were going to face a property crash in Australia, you know, 30-40% drop, and even the cab driver was telling you not to invest, right? So you could be forgiven for feeling fearful. But the end of the story is like, you know, like Warren Buffett says, when everyone is fearful, be greedy. 

Tyrone Shum:
So faced with a lot of fear and apprehension, how and when did Pan eventually take the plunge? 

Lianna Pan: 
(29:21) Yeah, it was just after a lot of passing on opportunities, and my mentor really talking some sense into me. And if I had the opportunity today, I would have gone back and bought as much as I could afford. And I settled on that property, and really, fundamentally ticked all the boxes. So I just took that step to get onto that property journey and never look back.

Tyrone Shum: 
(29:49) Excellent. And what was that first property that you purchased?

Lianna Pan: 
(29:52) It was in Sydney. And so Sydney at that time happened to be one of the cities that was just perfect timing. I was considering Melbourne, but because I lived in Sydney I took advantage of that.

Tyrone Shum:
(30:09) Are you able to share with us the details of that first property? What was the property? Why that particular property? Can you give us a background story behind it?

Lianna Pan:
(30:18) It was just a property that ticked all the boxes in terms of the research, massive gentrification going through that area, lots of demographic change, population growth, demographic change, as well. And it was actually undergoing a lot of infrastructure. 

(30:38) So rejuvenation, which actually combined with gentrification, it was also a very undervalued suburb compared to all the surrounding suburbs. So it ticked a lot of boxes. And it just so happened, it was at a time when, you know, some developers were having to liquidate their properties, that was a brand new property just built, and that particular developer was having some cash flow issues, and probably not an uncommon problem during the GFC.

FROM $400,000 TO A MILLION.

(31:06) But it actually opened up the world of opportunities to negotiate some good discounts. So I got a little bit of a discount on that on the deal as well. So you know, everything really added up. Was it the perfect property? No, I didn't like the colour of the kitchen. You know, the aspect wasn't perfect, but who cares? That property, I paid $400,000 for that property. It was like a two bedroom townhouse or something. And today, it's worth over a million dollars.

**MUSIC BREAK**

Tyrone Shum: 
Within her property journey, Pan experienced a few ups and downs, along the way. She shares these challenging moments.

Lianna Pan:
(32:12) It is quite an interesting journey. So I think I was very disciplined, I was very cautious for the first few years. And then I wanted to try, you know, after a few years, I just wanted to try different strategies as well. So I tried to explore different paths, you know, renovation, subdivisions and developments.

(32:32) So I've actually tried all of that. And what I did was, like, I guess at one point I got sort of a little bit lazy, or a little bit cocky if you like, thinking, ‘Oh, well, I've got successes from my acquisition so far, you know, I should be able to just do that in other strategies’.

(32:51) You know, one thing I realised was that when I didn't spend as much time upfront, doing the research, and really understanding timing the market, the right location at the right time, and I just, you know, bought something which I thought, well, I can renovate and flip it quickly. 

PAN’S RENOVATION STRATEGY DIDN’T WORK OUT AS PLANNED. 

(33:12) I've got mentors and coaches in that space as well, who’re very good at that particular skill, but then not necessarily good at the bigger picture, understanding the research part of it. So even when you execute that strategy really well like in a renovation… so I did renovations, and made no money out of it, I did renovations and lost money.

(33:38) And, at the end of the day, the biggest lesson there was not buying the property at the right time, the right location. And another big mistake is actually flipping those properties. So not holding on to them for the long term thinking, you know, because a lot of people that are going to you probably have seen these coaching courses, there's so many coaching courses, which I actually went to at the time as well and actually follow their advice.

(34:06) So one of the things that we're saying is, it doesn't matter what market you're buying a property in, if you execute these values as strategies like renovations and developments, you always make money. That's not true. It is not true at all. It was just incredibly stressful because I was working full time as well. Oh, it was so stressful.

SHE WENT THROUGH MANY SLEEPLESS NIGHTS DURING THIS TIME. 

(34:28) And forget about 60 hours, you're basically working non stop, because you're working full time, then you got to work on your project, which will be renovations or developments or whatever they may be. And there's a lot of risks involved there as well. So, you know, what if the council doesn't approve what you proposed? And there was just so much of that going on and so many uncertainties and risks. 

**MUSIC**

**OUTRO**

Tyrone Shum:
So inspired by Lianna Pan’s journey, we will keep the conversation going in a future episode of Property Investory, where we discuss her drive in helping people achieve their financial freedom through her business’ community...

Lianna Pan:
(19:35) So it's that in itself is an extremely rewarding experience. There's nothing as satisfying as seeing your predictions coming true time and time again and really helping not just me, personally but now members of the freedom community as well.

Tyrone Shum:
We dive into her ‘aha’ moments...

Lianna Pan:
(3:20) And the other one is just the strategy that we talked about. So how do you get properties to pay themselves off. And that is a huge aha moment for me, as well.

Tyrone Shum:
She shares with listeners the tips and tricks which helped her along in her journey. 

Lianna Pan:
(5:19) This is, again, a very important thing. From day one, I bought properties that were cash flow positive. So they all were brand new properties, which meant that they would maximise depreciation benefits, tax refunds...

Tyrone Shum:
And that’s next time in a future episode of Property Investory.
Shares for Beginners
Shares for Beginners
Philip Muscatello
SFB & Equity Mates - Mixed Martial Podcasting
It was seriously good fun meeting the Equity Mates. This is a special simulcast episodes released jointly on each other's channels. If you're here because you heard the then check out some of my back catalogue here - https://pod.link/1451778025. Otherwise it felt good to share our investing "moments". I hope you enjoy. "The Australian stock market is 2% of the global market. For every great Australian company, I can name an even better international equivalent. When Bryce and I started investing, international shares were difficult. They were really expensive and most of the time, you just couldn't access most markets. And what we've seen over the last even just five years is accessibility and costs have come down so much, and it's now just as easy to buy an American share or European share as an Australian share. And so, for us it feels like a no brainer. If we look around, you know, in this room what we're using, but more generally what we use in our lives, it's Apple computers, and we search on Google, we use Microsoft products. We want to invest in what we know, and more and more of what we know are overseas listed companies." Alec Renehan. Sharesight is the best portfolio tracking tool in the known universe - and they are pleased to extend a SPECIAL OFFER to listeners of this podcast: Save 4 months on an annual premium plan! Click here and sign up now for a 7 day free trial. Shares for Beginners is for information and educational purposes only. It isn’t financial advice, and you shouldn’t buy or sell any investments based on what you’ve heard here. Any opinion or commentary is the view of the speaker only not Shares for Beginners. This podcast doesn’t replace professional advice regarding your personal financial needs, circumstances or current situation. Thanks to Christopher Soulos for music production out of Garlic Breath Studio https://www.facebook.com/GarlicBreathStudio. Remember music flows when the money don’t.   See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.
35 min
Investopoly
Investopoly
Stuart Wemyss
Steppingstone strategy: how to buy your dream home
If the recent property price growth predictions become reality over the next couple of years, more homeowners may become ‘priced out’ of their desired location. What might be affordable today, could quickly become unaffordable, as prices can rise quickly. Sometimes it’s not possible to buy your dream home in one fell swoop. But do not despair. A steppingstone strategy could be the solution. Buying a dream home has always been a struggle, embrace it Property has always seemed expensive. I bought my first property 23 years ago for $150,000 and it was a big deal. It was a stretch, financially. It was a dump that needed renovating. Getting onto the property ladder and buying your dream home will take work. Some sacrifices. A little bit of hustling. But that has always been the case. Focus on the solutions, not the problems. Focus on building your deposit/equity If you are income-rich but asset poor, you need to build equity to extend your purchasing power. That equity could come in the form of cash savings/deposit or equity in an existing property. If your income earning capacity is limited, then accumulating more equity reduces the amount you need to borrow and as such, you are closer to being able to buy your dream home. Either way, your sole goal should be to build equity. How to implement a steppingstone strategy A steppingstone strategy involves buying an owner-occupier property with the sole aim of accumulating as much equity as possible, as fast as possible. Then, selling that property and using the equity to upgrade to a superior property. And continuing to do that until you have attained your dream home. There are three key steps to this strategy. _Step 1: Pick a location that has attractive short term growth prospects_ Buying a property in a location that is popular and is enjoying rising property price momentum can do a lot of the heavy lifting for you. The goal is to create equity as soon as possible. Therefore, it’s not as important to form a view about a given location’s long term growth prospects, unlike when buying a pure investment property. You just want to form a view about whether the price momentum will continue in the short term. Typically, locations that are gentrifying will exhibit above average growth rates. Gentrifying suburbs tend to have similar themes such as a changing demographic, increased renovation activity, new infrastructure and/or amenities that enhance the community feel (liveability) of the location and so on. Whilst it’s important to not buy at the peak of the market i.e. after prices have risen as much as they will, it is equally too risky to try to pick the next growth suburb, because you could be wrong. Essentially, you want recent evidence that the rising demand for the location is generating price growth. And that prices still have some future upside. _Step 2: Buy an older house with scope to manufacture equity_ Often, but not always, it is best to buy a house instead of a townhouse, villa unit or apartment. Firstly, houses tend to have proportionately more land value. Secondly, houses tend to offer more scope to improve their overall value e.g. renovation of bathrooms and kitchens, landscaping, adding a room/living area and so on. This is called manufacturing equity when the property’s value appreciates by more than the cost of the improvements made. Older houses (e.g. built pre-1970’s) offer better opportunities than newer ones, because there tends to be greater scope to make improvements, such as adding an additional bedroom, adding living areas or make it ‘open plan’. The risk of unexpected cost overruns is less likely if you stick to making cosmetic improvements i.e. no structural changes. It is also important that the finished product is aimed at the typical buyer in that location – it doesn’t have to appeal to your tastes – just have wide appeal to prospective buyers. It is important to note that suburbs closer to the CBD tend to offer better growth prospects. Therefore, start with the blue-chip suburbs and then move further out until you find a location that allows you to buy a house that fits within your budget. Sub-dividing a large block and constructing a second dwelling can also be a great way to manufacture (build) equity. It’s important to obtain tax advice from an experienced tax agent before you undertake such a project. _Step 3: Occupy the property to avoid CGT_ Buying, renovating and selling property is not a costless exercise. You pay stamp duty when you buy and agent fees when you sell. The last thing you want to do is make a donation to the ATO, as it will eat into your financial gains. Therefore, if you can nominate the property as your main residence, it will exempt you from paying capital gains tax (CGT). It might be difficult to occupy the property for the entire ownership period, especially if you need to complete significant renovations, but that should not prevent you from continuing to claim it as your main residence[1]. In summary Buy a house that is located in a suburb that is growing in popularity, as close to the CBD as your budget will allow. Select a property that has plenty of scope to add value e.g. renovate. Hold it for 2 to 7 years (as short as possible) before selling and moving closer to your desired (dream) location. Beware; this is a higher risk strategy Warren Buffett says risk comes from not knowing what you’re doing. This strategy will require a lot of homework including speaking to various property professionals. You must upskill yourself so that you can identify the best property prospects. It is still worth engaging a buyers’ agent as long as they have experience in buying the types of property in the locations you are targeting. In addition to upskilling yourself, you will need to assemble an experienced team including a mortgage broker, building inspector (you don’t want any nasty surprises), possibly a builder and maybe also financial advisor. Advice that makes money, pays for itself. The key assumption here is that the market will move in your favour. Of course, there is a risk that this might not happen, and you could be caught living in this property for longer than expected. Can your family help you? If you have enough income but don’t have a sufficient deposit, and alternative to the above strategy is to use a family guarantee, which I have discussed previously. Risk and reward I acknowledge this strategy is more hands-on and won’t suit everyone. However, there cannot be any reward without taking some risk and working hard. It might take you a few properties (steppingstones) and years to get to your desired location, but once you’re there, you and your family will enjoy the benefits for decades to come. [1] Of course, this is a generalisation, and you must obtain personalised tax advice.
15 min
The Elephant In The Room Property Podcast | Inside Australian Real Estate
The Elephant In The Room Property Podcast | Inside Australian Real Estate
Veronica Morgan & Chris Bates
Ep 164 - Marty Sadlier | Australia’s underinsurance epidemic: 83% underinsured!?
Marty Sadlier has over 19 years experience in the building and construction industry, he is the co-founder of MCG Quantity Surveyors which is recognised as Australia’s fastest growing quantity surveying firm; working with big names in business like McDonalds, CBA and Westpac. In this episode Marty breaks the news to Australians about the widespread building defects, the unbelievable underinsurance across Australia and what property investors should be doing to safeguard their biggest asset. Here’s what we covered: * How underinsured are Australians? * How to work out how much you should insure your house for? * Are online value calculators accurate? * How does extra costs such as demolish get lost in property owners calculations? * Can you insure depreciating buildings? * What is the difference between a valuer and a quantity surveyor? * Do apartment 5 year valuations increase their premiums? * How many buildings have flammable cladding? * Are things improving around building defects or is it getting worse? RELEVANT EPISODES: Episode 138 | Simon Kuestenmacher Episode 121 | Bart Mead Episode 113 | Dr. Nicole Johnston GUEST LINKS: https://www.mcgqs.com.au/elephant/ Fire Cladding Blog Common building defects Blog Final NSW Government Report into Building Standards and Quality Blog HOST LINKS: Looking for a Sydney Buyers Agent? www.gooddeeds.com.au Work with Veronica: https://linktr.ee/veronicamorgan Looking for a Mortgage Broker? www.wealthful.com.au Work with Chris: hello@wealthful.com.au Send in your questions to: questions@theelephantintheroom.com.au EPISODE TRANSCRIPT: Please note that this has been transcribed by half-human-half-robot, so brace yourself for typos and the odd bit of weirdness… This episode was recorded in February 2021.
1 hr 12 min
Property Developer Podcast
Property Developer Podcast
Justin Gehde
78 – Property development lessons to grow your property business
Decades of experience have taught Rod Fehring a thing or two about property development, and he shares some of the lessons learned along the way about how to create a successful property development business. In this episode we explore those lessons, the standout projects and the future of Australian residential property. Project update - Project 1 - framing well underway, couple more sales, 75% sold - Project 2 - assessing build quotes, readying to make a decision on who to appoint, about to launch marketing campaign Training Reminder If you are interested in discovering how ready you might to become a property developer, then head over to www.propertydevelopertraining.com and check out the quick self assessment tool. We also have the mentoring program that is available to help guide you through your first project, so email justin@propertydeveloperpodcast.com if you would like further information. Social links If you would like to see how my projects are progressing, I do post regular video updates on the show’s Facebook and Instagram feeds, along with other news and tidbits and they are both under the handle of Property Developer Podcast, so be sure to check them out. Property Developer Podcast Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/propertydeveloperpodcast Property Developer Podcast Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/property_developer_podcast/ Property Developer Podcast LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/property-developer-podcast Today's Guest is Rod Fehring In episode #76 [https://propertydeveloperpodcast.com/2020/12/03/76-becoming-the-head-of-a-billion-dollar-property-developer/] we covered Rod's career, how he went from humble public servant to head of one of Australia's largest public property development companies, Frasers Property before he retired in 2020. In the follow up conversation, we cover memorable projects, lessons learned, social housing, future of Australia housing markets Links Frasers Property Australia – https://www.frasersproperty.com.au
1 hr 37 min
The Michael Yardney Podcast | Property Investment, Success & Money
The Michael Yardney Podcast | Property Investment, Success & Money
Michael Yardney; Australia's authority in wealth creation through property
Ditch the Debt and get Rich with Effie Zahos
Navigating the world of personal finance can be overwhelming, even for an adult who has quite a bit of experience in the working world. Yet with some smart planning, a good strategy, and an understanding of the basics you should be able to develop the money-management skills you need to get your finances under control. And that’s what I discuss in today’s show with Australia’s leading finance columnist Effie Zahos. While many people listen to this podcast because they’re interested in property investing, money management is a critical part of any type of investing, and especially real estate investing. You need good money management to save your first deposit and once you own a property or two money management is even more important. So don’t let the financial world intimidate you. You may not have been taught much about finances, but I believe that 80% of personal finance is not financial education, but financial behaviour. If you can modify your behaviour with your finances, you can modify your financial future. And even if you don’t have money problems, I think you’ll enjoy my chat with Effie today as we discussed her new book and some lessons that we should be teaching our children and grandchildren. And of course, I will be sharing my regular mindset message with you. Ditch the Debt and Get Rich The Covid-19 pandemic impacted just about every Australian. Some people manage to cope well financially – others did even better financially turning lemons into lemonade, however, many Australians ran into financial difficulty with some only managing to stay afloat by raiding their super or putting a pause on their debt It was just another example of the rich getting richer and they did so by understanding the way money and finance works. Now you know one of the aims of my podcast and my blogs is to make more and more Australians financially fluent and help them get control of the finances. So, I was pleased to hear that leading Australian finance commentator and author Effie Zahos has just published a new book called Ditch the Debt and Get Rich. Effie Zahos is one of Australia’s leading personal finance commentators, with more than two decades of experience helping Aussies make the most of their money. She’s a regular money expert on Channel 9’s Today Show and on radio around Australia and was editor of Money magazine and is now Editor-at-Large at Canstar. Some of the subjects that Effie and I discussed * Effie’s journey and why she believes it’s so important to be the best financial version of yourself and learn the right things to teach your kids about finance. * Why more Australians aren’t wealthy and how they’ve become an instant gratification society. * The importance of mindset in developing wealth. * Money personalities – The animal traits that correspond to how you deal with money: Peacocks, Squirrels, Sloths, Owls, Ostriches * The problem of buy now, pay later, and how to be more aware of the tricks retailers use to get us to spend. * How to break the cycle of living payday to payday by no longer setting yourself up for failure. And how to put yourself on a bare-bones budget to catch up. * Common money mistakes. * Debt repayment strategies. * How to think rich in order to become rich. * How children learn financial literacy from their parents. * Some of the lessons Effie has learned over many years writing and speaking about finance. * It’s not what you earn that counts it’s what you spend. * Compound interest can make you a millionaire. The great Albert Einstein once said: "Compound interest is the eighth wonder of the world. He who understands it, earns it ... he who doesn't ... pays it". * Learn to say no * I am my best investment * I will continue to make mistakes * love your superannuation fund * Set your savings on autopilot * Have a plan and stick to it * The people who will most benefit from Effie’s new book: savvy investors, people who need a nudge, and people who want to be a better financial version of themselves Links and Resources: Michael Yardney Metropole’s Strategic Property Plan – to help both beginning and experienced investors Effie Zahos’ new book – Ditch the Debt and Get Rich Shownotes plus more here: Ditch the Debt and get Rich with Effie Zahos Some of our favourite quotes from the show: “There’s a whole science behind behavioural finance, and that’s why I think reading your new book Ditch the Debt and Get Rich is important.” – Michael Yardney “Some financial discipline early in life will allow people to have those enjoyments later on.” – Michael Yardney “The gap between what you gain and how much you avoid offsetting the gain is the figure that matters the most.” – Michael Yardney PLEASE LEAVE US A REVIEW Reviews are hugely important to me because they help new people discover this podcast. If you enjoyed listening to this episode, please leave a review on iTunes - it's your way of passing the message forward to others and saying thank you to me. Here's how
46 min
The Buyers Bible
The Buyers Bible
Amy Lunardi
30 What happens after you buy With Victoria Devine
Woohoo! You’ve bought a property, congrats! So…. now what? In today’s episode I’m joined again by the fabulous Victoria Devine, who recently went through the home buying journey and settlement process herself. We explore what happens between purchase and settlement, including making sure you get the contract off to the relevant people, paying your deposit, sorting insurances (very important!!), final inspections and settlement day. Plus, once you settle, you have the awesome responsibility of paying off a mortgage (yay). Victoria and I chat about loan minimisation strategies, utilising your offset account and making sure you’re always getting the best interest rate. PS this is the last episode of The Buyers Bible, thank you SO much for joining us!!! Keep an eye out for my new podcast The Property Playbook (with Victoria Devine) :) Do you have a burning property question you’d like answered on the show? Connect with us on instagram @thebuyersbible, we’d love to hear from you with questions, thoughts and feedback. Don’t forget to head to our website www.thebuyersbible.com.au for our show notes, and to download your free first home buyer checklist. Information provided in our podcast is general in nature and does not constitute financial advice. Every effort has been made to ensure the information is accurate, listeners must not rely on this information to make investment or financial decisions. Theme music: Lioness (Instrumental) by DayFox https://soundcloud.com/dayfox Free Download / Stream: https://bit.ly/lioness-instrumental
29 min
my millennial money express
my millennial money express
SYMO interactive
3 ways to prevent burnout 🥵
Burnout is all too common and it's time we ended it! In this episode I chat with Vanessa Bennett from Next Evolution Performance about how we can finally end burnout, touching on: 👉🏿managing mental energy - understanding the concept of energy credits 👉setting boundaries in your life and with certain people - not being afraid to say no 👉🏼personal accountability - taking ownership of your life, boundaries and choices To access Vanessa's course, 'The Neuroscience of Getting More Done', head to https://www.nextevolutionenergy.com/ and use the code M3 (case sensitive) for $75USD off! Have a listen to Vanessa's previous episode around peak performance: https://player.whooshkaa.com/episode?id=450988 Check out The Glen James Spending Plan - use coupon code "m3x" with the link below to get this for under $50... save $20) For podcast resources, links to our stuff, disclaimers & warnings about this episode + more... check out: https://www.sortyourmoneyout.com/m3xshownotes 🛑 This podcast is for education and entertainment purposes. It is not intended as a substitute for professional financial, tax or legal advice. Any advice is general financial advice only which does not take into account your objectives, financial situation or needs. Because of that, you should consider if the advice is appropriate to you and your needs, before acting on the information. If you do choose to buy a financial product read the product disclosure statement and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored to your needs. We may discuss products, services and answer listener questions on this video for entertainment & illustration purposes only. We may change the name of the questioner for anonymity. It is impossible to give you personal advice on an entertainment podcast as we do not know the details of your personal financial situation. While we do our best to provide accurate information, we accept no responsibility for any inaccuracies that may be communicated in this podcast. SYMO interactive Pty Ltd, the publisher of the podcast, is an authorised representative of MoneySherpa Pty Ltd which holds financial services licence 451289. Please read our Financial Services Guide located at sortyourmoneyout.com. This podcast is intended for residents of Australia. We acknowledge the darkinjung people, Traditional Custodians of the land on which our studio sits, and pay respects to their Elders past and present. We extend that respect to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples who may listen to our podcast.
17 min
Nucleus Investment Insights
Nucleus Investment Insights
Nucleus Wealth
4.08 Inflation: Mirage or Oasis? | Nucleus Investment Insights
Nucleus Wealth's Chief Strategist David Llewellyn Smith, Head of Investments Damien Klassen and Head of Advice Tim Fuller discuss if record low interest rates, pandemic level monetary and fiscal stimulus along with surging asset prices translate into long term inflationary pressures View the presentation slides: https://nucleuswealth.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/inflation-oasis-or-mirage.pdf On the agenda: Inflation factors: commodity prices, supply disruptions, structural & cyclical factors Deflation factors: wages. China & expectations How to invest in inflation To listen in podcast form click here: https://nucleuswealth.com/podcasts/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=direct&utm_campaign=podcast Get an obligation-free portfolio recommendation to see how we would invest for you: https://portal.nucleuswealth.com/register/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=direct&utm_campaign=podcast Learn more about the hosts: https://nucleuswealth.com/people/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=direct&utm_campaign=podcast Find us on social media: https://www.facebook.com/NucleusWealth/ https://twitter.com/NucleusWealth https://linkedin.com/company/nucleuswealth Nucleus Wealth is an Australian Investment & Superannuation fund that can help you reach your financial goals through transparent, low cost, ethically tailored portfolios. To find out more head to https://nucleuswealth.com/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=direct&utm_campaign=podcast. The information on this podcast contains general information and does not take into account your personal objectives, financial situation or needs. Past performance is not an indication of future performance. Damien Klassen and Tim Fuller are an authorised representative of Nucleus Wealth Management. Nucleus Wealth is a business name of Nucleus Wealth Management Pty Ltd (ABN 54 614 386 266 ) and is a Corporate Authorised Representative of Nucleus Advice Pty Ltd - AFSL 515796 #inflation #investing
1 hr 16 min
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