The Healthy Compulsive Project
Gary Trosclair
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For five years The Healthy Compulsive Project has been offering information, insight and inspiration for OCPD, obsessive-compulsive personality, perfectionism, micro-managers and Type A personality. Anyone who’s ever been known to overwork, overplan, overcontrol or overanalyze is welcome here, where the obsessive-compulsive personality is explored and harnessed to deliver what it was originally meant to deliver. Join psychotherapist, Jungian psychoanalyst and author Gary Trosclair as he delves into the pitfalls and potential of the driven personality with an informative, positive, and often playful approach to this sometimes-vexing character style.
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1 day ago
Ep. 13: The Ten Commandments of the Obsessive-Compulsive Personality
In this episode of the The Healthy Compulsive Podcast we explore the relations between ideals, rules and commandments. People with Obsessive-Compulisve Personality may try to remedy insecurity by becoming overly conscientious. They may convert ideals into commandments, and good guidelines become rigid & destructive.
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Sep 19, 2023
Ep. 12: How Do I Know if I Have OCPD? And So What If I Do?
Understanding whether you have OCPD can be helpful not only in managing your symptoms, but also finding meaning in your personality. It's also helpful to distinguish between obsessive and compulsive, and obsessions and compulsions.
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Sep 12, 2023
Ep. 11: Who's in Charge? You or Your Inflated Rogue Ego?
Your ego may not be serving you well. But it's not about being egotistical. It's about whether it supports a balanced personality, or insists on control & order.
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Aug 22, 2023
Ep. 10: The Difference Between Narcissistic and Obsessive-Compulsive Personalities
Narcissistic and obsessive-compulsive personalities may similar at first glance, but a closer look reveals differences, with implications for treatment and relationships.
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Aug 10, 2023
Ep. 9: If Your Partner Has Threatened to Divorce You
The question you really need to ask yourself when you partner has threatened to divorce you, is not just whether you are ready to divorce, or what you will do to keep your partner. It's also about what you would want to change for your own well-being.
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Aug 10, 2023
Ep. 8: Four Types of Compulsive Personality
People with obsessive-compulsive personality are not all alike. Four typical types are leaders, workers, servers, and thinkers. Each type has healthy and unhealthy potential. Developing each of these rather than relying on just one type helps us to live healthier, more balanced lives.
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Aug 3, 2023
Ep. 7: How to Stop Obsessing and Survive Your Vacation
Vacationing can be a trial for perfectionists, obsessive-compulsives, and Type A personalities. Things rarely go according to plan, and the struggle to let go can be difficult. This episode includes two blog posts: A Short Guide to Vacationing for Workaholics, Compulsives, and Type A’s, and There Will Be Roosters: A Personal Story about Obsessing.
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Jul 27, 2023
Ep. 6. What Inspiration Can Do for Us and Why We Won't Let It
When cultivating the potential of the obsessive-compulsive personality, an essential ingredient is inspiration. But too often, the frozen version of the obsessive-compulsive personality won't let in the very thing we need.
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Jul 19, 2023
Ep. 5: The Difference Between OCD and OCPD
You may not have OCD after all. More than twice as many people have OCPD (obsessive-compulsive personality disorder) than OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder). And most of them don’t know it. Many people with OCPD, and many clinicians as well, are unaware of the condition and how it differs from OCD. This episode clarifies the differences and offers an example. Click here for the written version on the Healthy Compulsive Blog.
Transcript
Your colleague Mitch works very late hours, insists on perfection in team documents, and can get pretty bent out of shape at meetings, letting people know exactly how they should be doing things. He needs to have things a certain way and his anxiety is palpable if he doesn't.
You might think to yourself, "He's kind of crazy!" but you're not sure exactly what kind of crazy he is. You might think, "Maybe he has OCD." But you'd be wrong if you did.
Mitch has a condition that most people aren’t awareof, the psychiatric diagnosis known as Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD).
OCPD is different from the more well-known (OCD) Obsessive-compulsive disorder). Most people, including many clinicians, don't know the difference between OCD and OCPD, so too often it's not recognized as a mental illness. And that's really unfortunate because those with OCPD can make themselves--and everyone around them--really miserable.
And it doesn't have to be that way.
OCPD is treatable, but it needs to be identified as different from OCD--and acknowledged--before work can begin.
About 2.3% of the population meet the full criteria for OCD, while estimates for those meeting criteria for OCPD is between 3 and 8%. So, if we split the difference, at least twice as many people actually have OCPD as have OCD. Even some clinicians are not aware of OCPD, and are therefore not able to make a differential diagnosis. This means there are a lot of people running around out there with OCPD who think they have OCD.
So what is the difference between OCD and OCPD?
What is OCD?
OCD is a type of anxiety disorder which has specific, limited, effects on a person’s behavior and thinking. It leads to specific obsessions and compulsions: rituals, checking, and cleaning. In some cases it puts serious constraints on the individual. Sufferers can get lost in cleaning or rituals (compulsions) at the expense of all other areas of their lives. Intrusive thoughts (obsessions) can be violent and extremely disturbing.
What is OCPD?
In contrast, compulsive personality affects a person’s entire character. For better or worse.
People can have an obsessive-compulsive personality style but not have the disorder. At their best, people with a compulsive style are creative, productive and reliable. In fact you can be compulsive and live quite well on the healthy end of the spectrum. That’s the whole point of this blog.
But at its worst the compulsive personality drifts into the personality disorder, (OCPD). People with this condition are rigid, over-controlling, and perfectionistic. They have difficulty tolerating situations that they find to be unorganized or unethical. They lack flexibility. They have difficulty delegating, sometimes hoard, and are often needlessly frugal. They are all work and no play. They neglect or boss their partners.
But to keep it simple, today I’m just going to compare OCD with OCPD, the unhealthy version of compulsive personality.
What is the Difference Between OCD and OCPD
Here is a chart outlining the differences. Some individuals have both OCD and OCPD, and there is some overlap, but these are still distinct conditions. Variations occur of course, but these are the traits that typically describe the two conditions:
| OCD | OCPD
| Anxiety Disorder | Personality Disorder
| Do not like their symptoms | Take pride in their personality
| Have specific obsessions and compulsions | Entire personality is affected
| Motivated by need to prevent catastrophes | Motivated by perfectionism and conscientiousness
| Willingly seek professional help | Resist seeking professional help
| Seek help for relief from symptoms | Seek help mostly to salvage relationships or to get relief from depression
| Spend time on compulsive rituals (e.g. cleaning & checking) | Spend time on work projects and planning
| Symptoms are generally maladaptive (except hygiene) | Traits may be adaptive if used consciously
| Emotions are not necessarily suppressed | Emotions are controlled and gratification is delayed
| Often feel insecure in regard to others | May become domineering
While both conditions have a genetic component, the biological origins for OCD appear to be more significant than those for OCPD, which might explain why OCD responds more to medication than OCPD does. Medication can be helpful for OCD, but I’ve also worked with many people in talk therapy whose OCD symptoms diminished significantly without medication.
Examples: Deidre (OCD) and Peter (OCPD)
To illustrate the difference let me introduce you to a couple. Diedre, a bank manager, suffers from typical OCD symptoms. Her husband Peter owns his own consulting firm and struggles with typical OCPD symptoms: he’s on the unhealthy end of the compulsive personality spectrum. They’re very different people.
Deidre (OCD) tends to engage in rituals and checking in efforts to calm her anxiety. She needs to have things at right angles. Her desk is always clear. She fears germs and constantly washes her hands. In order to avoid disturbing intrusive thoughts she has to go where no one will see her and take her shoes off and put them back on. Three times. No more no less. She checks to make sure the door is locked four times before she leaves her house. She doesn’t like all this foolishness, but it feels absolutely necessary to her. She takes medication for it and it helps some, but there are those side effects.
Peter (OCPD) tries to deal with his anxiety by perfecting, planning and completing tasks. He might have a messy desk, but he’s very organized and gets lots of work done. Too much work most people would say. He would never check the door four times because that’s inefficient, a waste of his time. And he never wastes time. Friends have suggested he get some help (as in psychotherapy), but he doesn’t want to spend the time or money. Besides, as far as he’s concerned he’s just fine. He has strong ideas about what’s right and wrong, and he makes damn sure he’s on the right side of wrong.
Diedre’s OCD problems started when she was a kid. She had the germ thing going and she worried constantly about doing something wrong and her parents dying as a result. Peter’s obsession with work started late in high school, and got more intense after graduating from college.
A Day in the Life with OCD and OCPD
Today at work Diedre had no problem calling the central office for help. Peter slogged through his day doing everything himself. He won’t hire anyone to help because no one else will do it as well as he does. He can't delegate.
Diedre suggests they go out to dinner to do something different for fun. Peter complies because he really does want to do the right thing. But because he's obsessed with work, they both end up feeling that he’s just checking off a box.
When they get to the restaurant, Diedre is on the lookout for germs. Peter is on the lookout to see that the waiter gets the order right.
Diedre gets anxious about whether the iron is still on at home. Peter is still thinking about a project he hasn’t completed.
While they wait for the check Diedre arranges everything on the table neatly. When the check does come, Peter scrutinizes it for errors. He won’t pay a penny more than he owes. He's frugal and holds tightly to his money.
When they go home, Diedre arranges her closets to relax. Peter goes back to his office and works more.
The Potential for Happiness
Despite all of her quirks, Diedre is a fairly happy woman. She’s not perfection…
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Jul 19, 2023
Ep. 4: For Partners of People with Obsessive-Compulsive Personality (OCPD)
People with obsessive-compulsive personalities can make committed and reliable partners, or they can destroy relationships with their insistence on telling the other how to live. This episode is for partners of people with obsessive-compulsive personality disorder (OCPD), with suggestions for how to get along with the OCPD partner and make the best of what can be a trying relationship. The episode concludes with a section on how some partners with OCPD engage in moral gaslighting, making their partner feel there is something weak, lazy or unethical about them. Click here for the written version of How to Get Along with an OCPD Partner. Click here for the written version of Moral Gaslighting.
Transcript
*How to Get Along With a Partner With OCPD (Compulsive Personality)*
June 20, 2018 Posted by Gary Trosclair 121 Comments
A partner with OCPD (obsessive compulsive personality disorder), can be really difficult to live with. They usually aren’t aware how extreme their rigidity has become and are often convinced that they’re right all the time. Their perfectionistic, controlling and workaholic tendencies can leave you feeling criticized, run-down, and abandoned.
But with intention on their part and support from others, people with compulsive tendencies can change and become great partners—loyal, hard-working, dependable, and conscientious.
For those of you who want to try to work out their relationship, I’ll suggest seven steps to help you and your partner deal with the challenge. None of my suggestions are intended to blame or hold the partner responsible for the situation.
Before I go through these seven suggestions in more detail, here are two key ideas to keep in mind as you consider them:
* Appeal to the part of your partner that really wants to do the right thing. That’s at the core of the compulsive personality, however skewed it might have become. Their rules were originally meant to protect people, but they’ve put the cart before the horse. Once they recognize that nurturing their relationship is also the “right thing” to do, they can channel their energy into the project. This appeals to those with compulsive personality, and can help them move to the healthier end of the spectrum.
* Still, you’ll need to sort out what is and is not within your control. In very severe cases of OCPD there may be little you can do to help them change other than urge them to get professional help. And you should not tolerate abuse of any sort. But in all cases you’ll need to focus on what you can do to improve not only your relationship, but also your own life, rather than waiting for your partner to change. As we’ll see below, this can actually help your partner change.
(I am adding a note here almost 5 years after originally posting this. Crucial to understanding your partner and your situation is to understand what type of OCPD you are dealing with. They are not all the same: very different types of people can all meet the criteria for OCPD. In brief, these are leaders or bosses, workers or workaholics, servers or people-pleasers, and thinkers or obsessers. Some of them are harder to deal with, and some of them are more likely to change. Your compulsive partner may be very different from someone else’s compulsive partner. This is particularly important to be aware of if you decide to give advice to others. Please read my post about the different sorts of compulsives from May, 2020, here.)
Contents
* 1. Foster Communication With Your Partner with OCPD
* 2. See the Intentions Beneath the Surface
* 3. Appreciate the Good
* 4. Encourage Your Partner with OCPD to Get Help
* 5. Avoid the Division of Labor
* 6. Set Boundaries
* 7. Create Your Own Support System
1. Foster Communication With Your Partner with OCPD
Compulsives don’t always communicate well. They’re often too busy fixing the world to bother saying what they feel, and their behavior implies that they feel indifferent or critical. Worse, since they’ve spent much of their life “doing” rather than feeling, they may know very little about what they actually feel. None of this means they don’t care; it means that they’re consumed with getting things done—ironically, maybe even getting things done for you.
None of this justifies bad behavior, but don’t assume that they don’t care or that they can read your mind. If you do, it will just make matters worse. You can break this cycle by starting with curiosity: “Do you know how that makes me feel? Did you mean to make me feel bad?”
Strike while the iron is cold. If your partner is reactive or over-sensitive, it’s best not to try to have a discussion when they’re upset. Their rigidity and perfectionism probably get worse when they’re under pressure. Tell them you want to work it out with them when they feel calmer. Find a time when they’re less upset to engage. There will never be a perfect time, but if they’re overwhelmed with fear or anger, they may not be able to communicate well. If you can ask them about their intentions when they’re calm, you might be able to enter into a constructive dialogue.
2. See the Intentions Beneath the Surface
Extreme compulsiveness is the way some people who are naturally driven try to cope with their anxiety. When they’re upset their energy and good intentions get hijacked by their fear that they won’t meet expectations and that they will feel shame. Even when they look like they have it all together, underneath they’re probably feeling very vulnerable. It may be hard to imagine how disturbing this is for them. If you can keep this in mind, rather than taking their behavior personally, it will be easier to break the cycle and to find creative solutions to your disagreements.
3. Appreciate the Good
Perspective determines the quality of all relationships to some extent. You can choose whether to focus on your partner’s shortcomings or their strengths. If you can remember the good things they bring to the table, it will help you immensely.
It will also be helpful–to both of you–to tell your partner you appreciate it when they do something that feels good to you. If they do let go of control, spend time with you, say something nice, or slow down and listen, tell them that you noticed it and that you value it. That makes it more likely to happen again.
I find it helpful to understand people with OCPD as “driven,” which is far less pathologizing and can help them be more receptive to feedback.
4. Encourage Your Partner with OCPD to Get Help
People who meet the full criteria for OCPD usually don’t think that they have a problem and resist getting help. It can be hard to get them to go to counselling or therapy, but here are some suggestions for framing it in a way that may appeal to them.
• Explain that the reason for them to get help is not a matter of their under-functioning, but of their habitual over-functioning. This is not a matter of weakness, but of excessive strength. They need a professional to interrupt that pattern.
• Convey that you know they want to do the right thing.
• Recommend other articles on this blog to help them see their strengths and challenges so they might feel less criticized and more open to change.
• Help them understand the impact they have on others.
• Point out the impact their lifestyle has on their own physical and mental well-being. They may be oblivious to how they’re treating themselves, and that they could be healthier and happier than they are.
• Point out how their control actually gets in the way of their goals.
And now let’s focus more on you.
5. Avoid the Division of Labor
Be wary of the division of labor in which one person is serious and demanding while the other is easy going and accepting. One brings responsibility, self-restraint and reason, the other brings joy, emotion and spontaneity. If you expect your partner to do all the organizing, providing…
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Jul 19, 2023
Ep. 3: OCPD (Obsessive-Compulsive Personality) and Depression
This episode explores the link between unhealthy compulsivity and depression in three parts: understanding what depression may be trying to tell us, how the negativity bias protects us and makes us miserable at the same time, and why compulsives get stuck on the hedonic treadmill. Click here for the written version.
Transcript
*Why Compulsive People Get Depressed Part 1: The Missed Potential of Low Mood*
Constance was meticulous in everything she did. She was famous, and at times infamous, for accuracy at her job, for her fastidiousness in her home, and for her painstaking protocol when running the PTA. Her friends and colleagues said that while she was really well-intentioned, her standards were just too high and she was way too controlling. “You need to let go” everyone told her. But she was determined to get everything just right. And when a big project didn’t go her way, she found herself falling into into a funk. She couldn’t care anymore. It felt like the drive that had throttled her through life so far was missing in action.
But since we’re all very enlightened and tend to think that depression is nothing more than a pathological state these days, it didn’t occur to her that perhaps the depression was telling her something, and that it was telling her that walking away from unrealistic expectations just might be a healthy reaction. Not only did she miss the message, she interpreted it in a way that made her more depressed. She thought there was something wrong with her.
This is the first in a short series about the reasons that compulsive people get depressed. People who meet the full criteria for obsessive-compulsive personality disorder (OCPD), and those who have just a few compulsive personality traits, are both especially susceptible to depression, and it’s important to untangle the depression from the personality. Otherwise they can each make the other worse. Being compulsive can make us depressed, and sometimes we try to cure or cover the depression by being more compulsive. Not a good idea.
Bringing awareness to the possible function of depression is particularly important for people who are compulsive because they often endure their suffering in the territory of “high-functioning depression”–hidden from all, but painful nevertheless.
These posts will offer a very different way to understand depression, and offer suggestions to help you break the cycle that can occur between compulsive personality and depression. However, I also want to make clear that if you’re suffering from a serious depression you should consult a mental health professional for help through psychotherapy, medication or both.
Contents
* The Potential Purpose and Value of Depression
* The Evolutionary Benefits of Depression
* Jung: Depression is the Unconscious Trying To Balance Us
* And Now–The Reality
* What happened to chemical imbalances?
* The Takeaway
The Potential Purpose and Value of Depression
Depression sometimes has a purpose. Especially if you’re compulsive or driven, it can be nature’s way of slowing you down when you’re racing too far and too fast in one direction. Correctly understood, it has potential value.
While there is much to support this idea of depression having purpose, in this post I’ll be drawing on two particular and very different sources to support it: psychologist and mood researcher Jonathan Rottenberg at the University of South Florida, and early twentieth century groundbreaking psychiatrist, Carl Jung.
Rottenberg has experienced major depression himself, and he’s published a book about the science of low mood: The Depths: The Evolutionary Origins of the Depression Epidemic. He shares reams of data to back up the idea that there have been evolutionary benefits for low mood. Rottenberg questions the way depression is usually understood. He asks: Why is it that we’ve invested such huge resources in treating depression, but so many people are still so depressed?
Jung didn’t have the data at his disposal that Rottenberg did, but he still somehow understood, 100 years before, that if we look for the potential purpose in “mental illness” we can contend with it in a more holistic and effective way.
Both urge us to stop pathologizing depression and start listening to what it’s trying to tell us. It’s not a defect, it’s a message.
The Evolutionary Benefits of Depression
Rottenberg’s basic argument is that low mood has had evolutionary benefits that have helped us to survive and develop, so it’s been pretty deeply engrained in us. Here are a few of the benefits:
* It discourages destructive conflict and sensitizes us to social risk. This was really important in the conditions in which we evolved: bands of 75 people struggling for survival. The better you get along, the more likely you are to survive because you can cooperate in collecting food, and in warding off intruders, those nasty, rule-breaking goons who hadn’t bothered filling out the paperwork to join the United Nations.
* It discourages wasteful effort. When you hit a wall, when persistence becomes a liability, depression forces you to stop digging. It reduces the energy that would otherwise be wasted on futile goal pursuits such as trying to get everyone else to be as scrupulous and fastidious as you are.
* It slows us down so that we can actually concentrate more, and make better decisions about what’s realistic. This can prevent calamities such as racing headlong into projects by yourself with the absolute certainty that you have to take it on alone because no-one else will do it the right way.
People who are driven can become possessed by an idea and become rigid and inflexible in their drive to do what they feel is the right thing. It shows up in road rage, unwieldy kitchen commands, and passive-aggressive punishment aimed at those who don’t comply. It can cause unproductive interpersonal conflict, waste energy, and lead to bad decisions. Depression can lessen that tendency and can help us to slow down and question the strategies we’ve been so cocksure about.
To anthropomorphize in a very unscientific way, depression says, if you don’t let go willingly, I will force you to let go grudgingly.
Jung: Depression is the Unconscious Trying To Balance Us
Carl Jung believed that the human psyche is a self-balancing, homeostatic system. Or at least it can be if we aren’t so headstrong that we ignore the wisdom of the unconscious. So, if we get too rigid, a low mood brought on by the unconscious can force us to re-evaluate how we’re living. He believed that depression is nature’s way of taking energy away from the conscious ego, and putting it in the unconscious so that we have to pay attention to what’s happening inside.
If our attitude toward mood–and its source, the unconscious–is one of curiosity and respect, we are better situated to learn from it.
This is actually quite close to Rottenberg’s idea: depression forces us to reflect and keeps us from crashing headlong into folly.
And Now–The Reality
But is this what depression is like for you? It makes many of us irritable, waste more time, and isolate. And better concentration? Yeah, right.
Both Rottenberg and Jung would acknowledge this. The purpose of low mood can go awry, for many reasons, including stress, anxiety and lack of sleep. If any of these are present, the natural course of a meaningful low mood can go wrong. This kind of blockage could account for what Rottenberg calls deep depression, the disabling kind, as opposed to shallow depression, which can be more productive.
Rottenberg also points out that our overly ambitious culture has lead us to an epidemic of depression. Advertising, status, materialism and the idea that we can do or have anything we want, have led us to crave things we can’t do or have. It sets up entirely unrealistic expectations which compulsives are all-too-willing to buy into–an…
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Jul 19, 2023
Ep. 2: Introducing The Healthy Compulsive Project Podcast
Introducing The Healthy Compulsive Project Podcast, offering information, insights, and inspiration to optimize the obsessive-compulsive personality. From clinical, personal and Jungian perspectives, help with depth and a light touch for OCPD, perfectionists, control freaks and micro-managers.
Transcript:
Wait, The Healthy Compulsive? Isn’t that an oxymoron?
Not in my book. And I’ll tell you how I got there.
Five years ago I launched The Healthy Compulsive Project, starting with a blog, and later adding a book. Today I'm launching a podcast, an OCPD podcast, but for many more than just those with OCPD.
The goal of the Project has been to help people with obsessive, compulsive, perfectionistic, micro-managing and type A personalities live healthier and more fulfilling lives, lives that are better not despite their compulsive tendencies, but because of them.
The audience for the Project includes people with Obsessive-compulsive personality disorder—OCPD, and those who might ju…
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Jul 10, 2023
Ep. 1: The Healthy Compulsive Project | Trailer
Control freaks and perfectionists unite! Anyone who’s ever been known to overwork, overplan, overcontrol or overanalyze is welcome here, where the obsessive-compulsive personality is explored and harnessed to deliver what it was originally meant to deliver. Join psychotherapist, Jungian psychoanalyst and author Gary Trosclair as he delves into the pitfalls and potential of the driven personality with an informative, positive, and often playful approach to this sometimes-vexing character style.
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