In All Things Podcast
Justin Ariel Bailey
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Welcome to the In All Things Podcast, where we host conversations with diverse voices about living creatively in God’s created world. Hosted by Justin Ariel Bailey, this podcast complements the creative content found at inallthings.org, the online journal for the Andreas Center at Dordt University.
Available episodes
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Oldest first
Nov 21, 2023
REFUSING Partisan Identity with David French (ep. 48)
On this episode of the podcast, I’m joined by commentator and NYT columnist David French, to talk about politics and his recent book Divided We Fall. We talk partisan polarization, public witness, and I even ask him to give some predictions for the election cycle ahead. Among the questions we discuss:
* David's journey to becoming "a man without a party" and whether this marginalizes him on both sides or gives him a unique opportunity
* The shifting discourse from "the other side is wrong" to "the other side is evil"
* The possibility of the breakup of the American republic ("Calexit" and "Texit")
* Postures that are necessary to weather the upcoming election cycle
* How to discern "dangerous ideas" and to engage in public witness with compassion and conviction
Get the book: https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250201973/dividedwefall
Included music on this episode: "People Are People Too" from the Ruralists album "Trying." Find lyrics and more here: https://www.fullyruralized.com/
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Nov 7, 2023
INVENTING Art and Learning to See with Katie Kresser (ep. 47)
On this episode of the podcast, I talk with an art historian, Dr. Katie Kresser, about how art can train our imaginations to look at our neighbors and the world with dignity and love. She is a writer I follow closely, and her book, Bezalel's Body is the most thought-provoking book I’ve read in the last year! I was thrilled to have the chance to ask her some questions about it. Among the topics we discuss:
* "When God died, art was born." How the Christian story - of the death and resurrection of God the Son - made art possible
* How art can train the imagination to look at the world in the right way, recognizing dignity and not reducing others to ourselves.
* The consequences when we neglect to disciple our imaginations, and some of the unintended results of the Reformation turn from the visual towards the verbal.
* The burden of living in the contemporary "society of the spectacle," where we feel that we must make ourselves.
* What makes something art, what makes for "good art," and how to build bridges between artists and the church.
*
“Our destiny is the product of the real work we do amid the secret life of the universe with God’s providential help. We are too foolish to see it. But love sees it.” (201)
Get the book: https://wipfandstock.com/9781532645648/bezalels-body/
Included music on this episode is "Murmur" from the Ruralists album "Trying." Find lyrics and more here: https://www.fullyruralized.com/
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Oct 24, 2023
MARKING Meaning with Ritual with Amy Davis Abdallah (ep. 46)
On this episode of the podcast, I talk with Dr. Amy Davis Abdallah about her new book, Meaning in the Moment: How Rituals Help Us Move Through Joy, Pain, and Everything in Between. It’s a conversation about the power of ritual and how rituals help us find meaning and direction as we face endings, middles, and new beginnings. Among the topics we discuss:
* Why some people fear and might be suspicious of "ritual"
* How we already ritualize (though we may not call it that)
* Fascinating psychological research on the power of rituals, and how even calling something a ritual may increase its potency.
* How our rituals may go wrong and become "empty"
* What sorts of things we should ritualize, and what it means to create powerful rituals.
Dr. Abdallah shares a powerful story about living in NY during 9/11, and the role rituals played in the aftermath. She also takes time to lead us in an exercise at the end.
Get the book: https://bakerbookhouse.com/products/516480
Follow Dr. Abdallah: https://www.amydavisa.com/
Included music on this episode is "HereNow" from the Ruralists album "Trying." Find lyrics and more here: https://www.fullyruralized.com/
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Oct 10, 2023
GUIDING the Good Life with Meghan Sullivan (ep. 45)
On this episode of the podcast, I talk with Dr. Meghan Sullivan about her book The Good Life Method. The book, which is based on a wildly popular course at the University of Notre Dame, prescribes philosophy as care for the soul, teaching us to ask stronger questions about God and what makes for a good life. Among the questions we discuss:
* The disconnect between the contemporary practice of philosophy and the deep philosophical crises many are having
* What philosophy can offer that happiness studies or design theory can't
* How to ask stronger questions that move towards contemplation rather than control
* Love as a virtues that requires a greater capacity for attention than action
* How students are wrestling with faith and counsel for parents who worry about them
* The essential task of facing sadness and suffering
About 33 minutes in, Dr. Sullivan reads a passage from the book that is worth the price of admission. Get the book: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/624476/the-good-life-method-by-meghan-sullivan-and-paul-blaschko
Included music on this episode is "In Between" from the Ruralists album Trying. Find lyrics and more here: https://www.fullyruralized.com/
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Sep 26, 2023
PRACTICING Christian Theology with Kevin Hector (ep. 44)
On this episode of the podcast, I talk with Dr. Kevin Hector about his new book Christianity as a Way of Life. The book is an unusual and illuminating approach to writing a systematic theology, explaining Christianity in terms of practices rather than merely an account of beliefs. Among the topics we discuss:
* Why understanding Christianity as a way of life (including practices, beliefs, and experiences) requires a systematic theology
* How to do justice to the diversity of Christian tradition while also emphasizing attention to particular traditions
* A practical doctrine of Sabbath that understands rest as more than just a cessation of work
* A practical doctrine of creation that starts with a way of caring for creation as God's gift
* The crucial practice of seeing God's image in others
* Why our practices fail, and what we may hope as we practice Christian faith
Note: in the podcast, Dr. Hector references "tongsung kido" a Korean Christian practice of praying aloud at the same time as others.
Get the book: https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300244090/christianity-as-a-way-of-life/
Included music on this episode is "Before We Know" from the Ruralists album Trying. Find lyrics and more here: https://www.fullyruralized.com/
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Sep 12, 2023
ENGAGING Artificial Intelligence with Jason Thacker (ep. 43)
On this episode of the podcast, we talk with ethicist Jason Thacker about engaging artificial intelligence. The explosion of AI tools like ChatGPT, has led to both grand visions and grave concerns about the future, including the future of education and the future of work. In this conversation we seek to define the terms and seek biblical direction for our anxieties, hopes, and tech practices. Among the questions we discuss:
* How AI was already present in our everyday experience prior to the new tools
* A range of definitions and distinctions: narrow AI vs. general AI, superintelligence vs. the singularity
* The structure and direction of AI, and how the image of God can guide our engagement
* What we should and shouldn't worry about and what we should and shouldn't celebrate
* Counsel for students and teachers when it comes to AI
Follow Jason Thacker: https://jasonthacker.com/
Included music on this episode is "Mother Mary" from the Ruralists album Trying. Find lyrics and more here: https://www.fullyruralized.com/
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Aug 29, 2023
LOCATING Human Uniqueness with Mary Vanden Berg (ep. 42)
On this episode of the podcast, we talk with Dr. Mary Vanden Berg about her book Aquinas, Science, and Human Uniqueness: An Integrated Approach to What Makes Us Human. The conversation considers what makes humans unique in the face of a scientific culture (that tends to treat humans as mere animals) and technological advancement (that appears to reproduce intelligence artificially). Among the questions we discuss:
* Are humans nothing more than advanced animals?
* Is human intelligence of the same sort as the artificial intelligence we find in computers?
* Can we base human uniqueness in "intellect" without diminishing those cognitive disabilities?
* What does it mean to say that humans are a "body-soul complex"? Can we speak about a "soul" without diminishing the body?
* What is the practical or pastoral significance of discussing human uniqueness?
Get the book: https://wipfandstock.com/9781725267770/aquinas-science-and-human-uniqueness/
Included music on this episode is "Strange Machines" from the Ruralists album Trying. Find lyrics and more here: https://www.fullyruralized.com/
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Aug 15, 2023
EXAMINING the Evangelical Imagination with Karen Swallow Prior (ep. 41)
On this episode of the podcast, we talk with Dr. Karen Swallow Prior about her new book, The Evangelical Imagination. It’s a conversation about the stories, images, and metaphors that have shaped evangelical Christianity. Whether or not you consider yourself part of that movement/brand/space, you're invited to join us in examining what stories and images are shaping us. Among the topics we discuss:
* Why the imagination matters and what it means to speak of "the evangelical imagination" and why the cover of the book is "kitschy"
* How the evangelical desire to engage culture (shared by some varieties of Reformed Christianity) has meant that faith is captive to cultural currents
* Why the metaphor of being "born again" has such purchase on the American evangelical imagination, for good and ill
* What it means to engage in "examination as an act of love" not just a work of criticism or deconstruction
* How we might discern the difference between building faithful institutions and building empires
* Counsel for those who teach as well as for those who find themselves discouraged by the state of things
Get the book: https://bakerbookhouse.com/products/492150
Follow Dr. Prior: https://karenswallowprior.com/
Included music on this episode is "(dis)appear" from the Ruralists album Trying. Find lyrics and more here: https://www.fullyruralized.com/
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May 23, 2023
TRYING to Get it Right with the Ruralists (ep. 40)
On this episode of the podcast, I talk with two members of the band The Ruralists, Luke Hawley and Laremy Devries, about their new album, Trying. You may recognize the name and their music from the intro and the outro of this podcast. This was the 40th episode of the podcast, and we recorded it live on the stage of the B.J. Haan auditorium at Dordt University, with a small studio audience. They play three songs off the new album (lyrics below) and we discuss, along the following topics:
* The story of the band, the name of the band, and the name of the album
* What "ruralism" is and what it means to celebrate and advocate rural life
* How teaching and spending time with college students shapes the songs
* What it means to use faith as "a lens and not a hammer"
* What it means to say that song is a "Dooyeweerdian" song
* What it means to say that songs should be more like sermons and less like prayers, and the relationship is between making claims and exploring possibilities
Get the album: https://fullyruralized.bandcamp.com/album/trying
Listen to the album: https://www.fullyruralized.com/trying
More on the band: https://www.fullyruralized.com
***Special thanks to Alex Priore, Jack Underwood, and the production arts team who made the event happen with excellent quality and stellar style.***
Lyrics to "Murmur"
You’re a murmur of starlings
Darling
All your ever-shifting parts
A work of modern art
That I cannot understand
And I can’t look away
Or convey
All my slip-sliding thoughts
All twisted up in knots
Explaining how I feel
So I’ll keep writing you all these love songs
All my life long
Trying to get it right
And you’ll keep asking me
Why I do it
Why I can’t quit
But I just don’t know how
It’s just like breathing now
I’m an old tv set
Trying to get
The picture to come in
With strips of kitchen tin
Wrapped around my ears
But it’s mostly just snow
Even though I’m giving it my best
I just haven’t got it yet
As clear as it can be
So I’ll keep writing you all these love songs
All my life long
Trying to get it right
And you’ll keep asking me
Why I do it
Why I can’t quit
But I just don’t know how
It’s just like breathing now
There’s a word that I learned
From a friend
About saying what you’ve got
By saying what it’s not
Possible to say
So then all that I know
I suppose
Of language and of rhyme
Of being and of time
Means nothing without you
Lyrics to "Mother Mary"
I keep trying to see the face
Of mother mary full of grace
In an apple core
In a sticky bun
In a stretch of clouds
In the setting sun
But all that’s there is just the flesh and peel
Just the carmeled crust and the pink and teal of harvest dust
I keep trying to tell you how
I have always loved you like I love you now
But my tongue gets thick and my brain brain goes slack
And all these words come out bric-a-brac
And all that’s there is just the metaphor
It’s not the whole of you
It’s not the crux and core
It’s not the through and through
I keep trying to understand
How a dram of atoms makes the man
And the woman too
Is that the whole of us?
Just a clump of dirt?
Just a cloud of dust?
And that’s there is just some chemistry
The arithmetic of you and me
And the human heart is just a fine machine
Not a work of art filled with kerosene
Not a mystery of colossal scope
Not a duffel bag of fear and hope
Not a megaphone of love and hate
Not a talisman to keep us safe
Not a rattletrap always breaking down
Not a spiderweb
Not a shantytown
Not a creaking bridge
Not a tank brigade
Not an oracle
Not a masquerade
Just a thing that bangs and beats and pounds
And throbs and churns and wails and sounds
And maybe all we are is dust
Maybe that’s the whole of us
But maybe we are magic too
Impossible and completely true
Through and through
Lyrics to "People are People Too"
People are people too
Just like me and you
From the tops of our heads
To the foot of our beds
People are people too
You seem to think they’re not
You seem to think they’re not
You treat them like things
And not human beings
But people are people too
Of course it’s the same for me
Of course it’s the same for me
It’s hard to admit
But I often forget
That people are people too
So then what can be done
So then what can be done
Just what do we need
For us to agree
That people are people too
People are people too
Just like me and you
From the buds of our tongues
To the air in our lungs
People are people too
People are really strange
People are really strange
We do what we won’t
And believe what we don’t
But people are people too
Sometimes they drive you nuts
Sometimes they drive you nuts
So we try to negate
With our labels and hate
But people are people too
Time here is really short
Time here is really short
So let’s make up a plan
To be as kind as we can
Because people are people too
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Apr 25, 2023
DEMYSTIFYING Critical Race Theory with Jeff Liou (ep. 39)
On this episode of the podcast, I talk with Dr. Jeff Liou about his new book Christianity and Critical Race Theory. There are few topics more contentious than CRT, but in this conversation, we simply seek to demystify the discourse, to understand CRT, and to ask where there might be openings and oppositions for Christian discipleship as we seek to do justice, love mercy, and walk humbly with our God. Among the topics we discuss:
* What is CRT, and why has it become such a lightning rod? How can we demystify it to engage it in a meaningful way?
* How does the CRT concept of "community cultural wealth" connect with a Christian account of creative diversity?
* How does the CRT claim that "racism is ordinary" connect with the Christian doctrine of pervasive sin?
* What should we make of the criticisms of CRT that it redefines the terms of racism to see racism in everyone and everything, that it is nebulous and totalizing, and that it creates a new sort of fundamentalism that is light on grace?
* What are the greatest points of tension between Christianity and CRT?
* How might this conversation connect for Reformed Christians, specifically?
* How do we learn to see power, without power becoming the only thing we see?
Get the book: https://bakeracademic.com/p/Christianity-and-Critical-Race-Theory-Robert-Chao-Romero/436007
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Apr 11, 2023
GETTING Out of Bed with Alan Noble (ep. 38)
On this episode of the podcast, I talk with Dr. Alan Noble about his new book, On Getting Out of Bed: The Burden and Gift of Living. Getting out of bed may seem like a simple thing to do, but for many who struggle with mental affliction, getting out of bed is an act of faith and defiance against despair, a testimony to that fact that life is worth facing. Among the topics we discuss:
* The difference between the categories of "mental suffering" and "mental illness" and why there might be a danger in over-relying on the category of mental illness
* Why the younger generation in particular seems to struggle to get out of bed, and what might give them courage to do so.
* How literature, especially The Road by Cormac McCarthy offers us an embodied answer to the question of getting out of bed.
* Counsel for those who walk with loved ones who struggle with more debilitating mental illness
* Hope for those who struggle to believe that the grace of Christ (rather than suffering) is…
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Mar 28, 2023
EMBODYING Praise with David Taylor (ep. 37)
On this episode of the podcast I talk with Dr. David Taylor about his new book, A Body of Praise: Understanding the Role of Our Physical Bodies in Worship. For those of us who tend to think about worship as primarily a matter of the mind or heart, it’s a reminder about the role our physical bodies play in worship. It's an essential conversation, not least after the the upheavals and bodily deprivations of Covid. Among the topics we discuss:
* Why worship is just as much a matter of the body as the head or the heart.
* What it means to worship God "in Spirit and in Truth" (John 4)
* The idea of "body knowledge" and how it shapes us over time
* Surprises from church history about body postures in worship
* How to navigate debates over "originalism" and "the regulative principle" in light of cultural difference in the way we use our bodies in worship.
* Counsel for worship planners to engage the body in an authentic way
* Why it seems like worship doesn't always seem to w…
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Mar 14, 2023
DRAMATIZING the Greatest Story with Kathryn Wehr (ep. 36)
On this episode of the podcast, we are speaking with Dr. Kathryn Wehr, about her new annotated edition of Dorothy Sayers’s The Man Born to Be King, a series of 12 radio plays broadcast and published 80 years ago during the Second World War. It is a fascinating conversation of the unique complexities and tensions of adapting the gospels for dramatic production. Among the topics we discuss:
* Who was Dorothy Sayers? What are some of her works that we should know?
* The controversy that surrounded the original production of the radio plays and how it drove publicity and affected the final forms of the plays.
* Which characters were the most challenging to depict and which creative decisions were most successful
* How Sayers sought to write plays with ecumenical appeal, for the whole church rather than merely for a particular denomination.
* What Sayers might have to say to creative artists today.
We hope the conversation will encourage everyone to pick up a copy of the plays…
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Feb 28, 2023
FINDING Messiah with Jennifer Rosner (ep. 35)
On this episode of the podcast, we are speaking with the Dr. Jennifer Rosner, about her book Finding Messiah: A Journey into the Jewishness of the Gospel. Dr. Rosner is a Jewish believer in Jesus Christ, and in this episode, she tells us her story, as well as the story of how these two deeply intertwined religious traditions have been torn apart, and what it might mean to weave them back together. Among the topics we discuss:
* Dr. Rosner's story about finding Jesus and rediscovering her Jewish roots
* The sad history of Jewish and Christian relations
* How we can remember the Jewishness of the New Testament
* Some of the ways that well-meaning Christians perpetuate negative stereotypes about Judaism
* How Judaism can help us resist dualism through rediscovering the embodied character of faith and worship
* Some of the more encouraging developments in Jewish-Christian scholarship
For more about Dr. Rosner: https://www.jenrosner.com/
Get the book: https://www.ivpress.com/…
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Feb 14, 2023
STRETCHING the Poetic Imagination with Drew Jackson (ep. 34)
On this episode of the podcast, we interview poet Drew Jackson about his recently published collection of poems (God Speaks Through Wombs and Touch the Earth) in conversation with the gospel of Luke. Among the topics we discuss:
* The role of imagination as a pastor and as a poet
* How the Christian faith requires all of us to develop poetic imagination
* The process of writing poetry based on the biblical text
* Honoring the poetic voices that formed us in writing new poetry
* The process of writing poetry for sound and playing with structure
* The relationship of poetry and prayer
A highlight of this episode is when Drew reads two of his poems so that we can hear them in his voice.
Get the new collection: https://www.ivpress.com/touch-the-earth
Get the previous collection: https://www.ivpress.com/god-speaks-through-wombs
Other poets and authors mentioned in the podcast:
Rainer Maria Rilke
Langston Hughes
Ta-Nehisi Coates
Kiese Lamon
Paul Louis Dunbar
Mary Olive…
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Jan 31, 2023
UPDATING Calvinism for the Modern World with Cory Brock and Gray Sutanto (ep. 33)
On this episode of the podcast, we talk with Cory Brock and Gray Sutanto about their new book, Neo-Calvinism: A Theological Introduction (Lexham Press). We know that our listeners come from many different theological traditions other than our own, and although this discussion may at times go into the weeds, the larger conversation is about what it means to work out of a historical tradition, retrieving while also reimagining. Among the topics we discuss:
* What is Neo-Calvinism? What makes it "neo"? Is it broad or specific?
* What does it mean to restore and renew instead of to "repristinate" a tradition?
* How do we value the unique calling & perspective of a particular tradition while also recognizing the larger body of Christ?
* What does it mean to say that "grace restores nature"?
* How do we answer the charge that "every square inch" leads to triumphalism, or even Christian nationalism? What's the difference?
* What is the nature of our hope for "re-creation"? What d…
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Jan 17, 2023
SLOWING Down to Hear Creation’s Song with Kristen Page (ep. 32)
On this episode of the In All Things podcast, we speak with Dr. Kristen Page about her new book, The Wonders of Creation: Learning Stewardship from Narnia and Middle Earth. In this conversation, ecology and fantasy literature come together to train our imagination, practices, and pace. Among the topics we cover:
* How time spent in imaginary and literary worlds can slow us down and train our attention, helping us to become better stewards of creation.
* How learning to appreciate the beauty of creation empowers us to protect it.
* Why lament matters when it feels like our efforts are largely in vain
* What sort of practices can be cultivated and what other authors help us slow down and see
In All Things link (transcript available): https://inallthings.org/podcast-slowing-down-to-hear-creations-song-with-kristen-page-2/
Get the book: https://www.ivpress.com/the-wonders-of-creation
Read Hannah Landman's review: https://inallthings.org/active-imaginations-a-review-of-wonders-o…
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Nov 29, 2022
FORGIVING as a Form of Grief with Matthew Ichihashi Potts (ep. 31)
On this episode of the podcast, I speak with Matthew Ichihashi Potts about his new book, Forgiveness: An Alternative Account. During the conversation, we consider the biblical teaching about forgiveness in the face of lingering grievance and ongoing harm. Among the topics we cover:
* How some demands for forgiveness might actually do more harm to those who have been hurt.
* How we can escape the binary of "remember or retaliate" or "forgive and forget"
* What forgiveness looks like that is rooted in grief or mourning
* Why literary works might hold special value for helping us grasp the complexities of forgiveness
* On what we may hope for forgiveness when it comes to the end of all things (eschatology)
* When it comes to forgiveness, what we are being asked to do, and what we are not being asked to do
Get the book: https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300259858/forgiveness/
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Nov 15, 2022
REPENTING and Renewing with Esau McCaulley (ep. 30)
On this episode of the podcast, our guest is Dr. Esau McCaulley. Our conversation revolves around two books, his critically acclaimed book Reading While Black and his brand-new book Lent: The Season of Repentance and Renewal.
This thirtieth episode was special because we recorded it in-person in front of a live audience, who you may sometimes hear in the background. In any case, the conversation was an absolute joy, and you won’t want to miss Dr. McCaulley reading from his book near the end of the podcast, a moment that brought tears to my eyes. Among the topics we discuss:
* The connections between Dr. McCaulley's two books, one which introduces us to a vital interpretive tradition (Black biblical interpretation) and one which introduces us to a vital liturgical tradition (the church calendar).
* On how we can honor, inhabit, and integrate multiple traditions simultaneously with integrity
* On how to read Scripture so that it can surprise us and can tell us what we don't alr…
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Nov 1, 2022
LOWERING our Expectations with David Zahl (ep. 29)
On this episode of the podcast, I speak with David Zahl about his new book, Low Anthropology. It’s a conversation about the expectations we set on ourselves and others, and how recognizing and reckoning with human limitation, doubleness, and self-centeredness opens up space for both grace and growth. Among the topics we discuss:
* How burnout, loneliness, and “us vs. them” are signs of a high anthropology
* How low anthropology alleviates "imposter syndrome" and sets us free from the "fantasy self we are failing to become"
* Why communities organized around vulnerability and weakness are healthier and more hopeful than communities organized around strength and success.
* How low anthropology responds to contemporary phenomena like celebrity culture and cancel culture
* How sermons, churches, and discipleship look different when we operate on the priority of the heart rather than the head.
Get the book: http://bakerpublishinggroup.com/books/low-anthropology/410250
Che…
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Oct 18, 2022
DEVELOPING a Personality with Marjorie Lindner Gunnoe (ep. 28)
On this episode of the podcast, I’m joined by a guest co-host Dr. Mark Christians, and together we interview Dr. Marjorie Lindner Gunnoe about her new book The Person in Psychology and Christianity: A Faith-Based Critique of Five Theories of Social Development. Among the topics we discuss:
* Why ordinary people might be interested in developmental psychology
* Why these five (Erikson, Bowlby, Skinner, Bandura, and Evolutionary Psychology) were selected for the book.
* Dr. Gunnoe's "faith-based working model of the human person"
* The relationship of psychology and religion and why we should learn from others who do not share our faith
* The implications of things like attachment theory for discipleship
Get the book: https://www.ivpress.com/the-person-in-psychology-and-christianity
Dr. Mark Christians's review: https://inallthings.org/of-psychology-and-christianity-a-review-of-the-person-in-psychology-and-christianity/
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Oct 4, 2022
DISCERNING Cultural Wisdom & Foolishness with William Dyrness (ep. 27)
On this episode of the podcast, I had the special treat of interviewing my doctoral supervisor, William (Bill) Dyrness about his new book, The Facts on the Ground: A Wisdom Theology of Culture. I tell the story of how I came to study with Bill, and talk shop with him about our shared interest in theology and culture. Among the topics we discuss:
* Bill's story – which includes work as a missionary, study with Dutch scholar Hans Rookmaaker, theologizing about visual art, and theological reflection on numerous topics – what ties all of these interests together?
* On why it is so important that we deal with "the facts on the ground" and learn to discern "cultural wisdom" as we engage the world in which we live.
* On how we deal with the critique that in our desire to discern God's work within culture, we might be overly optimistic, giving God credit for the wrong things
* On what criteria we might use to discern wisdom from foolishness.
* On how Bill connected with the Kuyp…
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Sep 20, 2022
EQUIPPING for Political Engagement with Stephanie Summers (ep. 26)
On this episode of the podcast I talk with Stephanie Summers, the CEO of the Center for Public Justice about Christian political engagement as love of neighbor, and engagement that goes beyond presidential politics. Among the topics we discuss:
* Stephanie's story of deepening her youthful activism with theological roots
* What is "public" justice, and what does the Center for Public Justice do?
* How does CPJ approach a problem like poverty?
* How do we move forward in a deeply polarized time?
* What does it mean for ordinary people to be politically engaged beyond just voting every few years?
* How do you find hope amid the political cynicism of our time?
To learn more:
Center for Public Justice: https://www.cpjustice.org/public/page/content/homepage
Shared Justice: https://www.sharedjustice.org
Unleashing Opportunity book: https://www.sharedjustice.org/unleashing-opportunity
More about the Hatfield Prize: https://www.sharedjustice.org/apply
Follow CPJ on Twitter:…
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Sep 6, 2022
INTERPRETING Your World with Justin & the hosts of Hallway Conversations (ep. 25)
On this special 25th episode of the podcast, we collaborated with the hosts of Hallway Conversations podcast to produce a joint episode! Our conversation centers on *my* new book, Interpreting Your World: Five Lenses for Engaging Theology and Culture. Among the topics we discuss:
* What it means to become incisive interpreters, not just of Scripture, but also of culture.
* What it means to discern cultural idolatries, starting with our own
* How we can empower students to move beyond "reputation management" and "slacktivism" to act justly, love mercy, and walk humbly.
* What it might mean to take aesthetics seriously in schools, churches, and society.
* How we can model "non-reductive curiosity" as we engage culture.
Get the book: http://bakerpublishinggroup.com/books/interpreting-your-world/410460
About Dave, Matt, and Abby at the Hallway Conversations podcast (https://hallwayconvos.podbean.com/):
"We are three friends who have been teaching for quite a while, but we sti…
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Aug 23, 2022
RESISTING Celebrity Culture with Katelyn Beaty (ep. 24)
On this episode of the podcast, Ruth Clark and I chat with Katelyn Beaty about her new book, Celebrities for Jesus: How Personas, Platforms, and Profits are Hurting the Church. Among the topics we discuss:
* Why celebrity culture is a uniquely modern phenomenon.
* What it means to say that celebrity is a "feature, not a bug" of the evangelical movement, and the spiritual implications
* What it might mean to resist the values of celebrity culture in the church and in the Christian publishing industry
* Why obscurity and ordinary faithfulness are so important for followers of Christ
Get Katelyn's book: http://bakerpublishinggroup.com/books/celebrities-for-jesus/406890
To read Ruth Clark's review: https://inallthings.org/reckoning-with-status-and-realigning-our-hearts-a-review-of-celebrities-for-jesus/
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Apr 19, 2022
REDESIGNING Towards Flourishing with Ethan Brue (ep. 23)
On this episode of the podcast, I am joined by returning guest co-host Kayt Frisch, and together we chat with Dr. Ethan Brue about his new co-authored book, A Christian Field Guide to Technology for Engineers and Designers. Among the topics we discuss:
- How we can place technology, engineering, and design in the wider Christian story
- How technology tends to make itself "invisible" and the implications of that?
- What it might look like to design a home thermostat with more than just temperature in mind
- How we can move towards a definition of "flourishing" the goal of good design
- A fascinating case study about the rise and fall of the electric vehicle in the late 1800s/early 1900s.
- How we can navigate between technological optimism and pessimism, and what every Christian engineering student should know.
Get the book: https://www.ivpress.com/a-christian-field-guide-to-technology-for-engineers-and-designers
To read Dr. Kayt Frisch's review: https://inallthings.org/how-is-…
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Apr 5, 2022
RECKONING with Race with Vince Bacote (ep. 22)
On this episode of the podcast, I am joined by Dr. Vince Bacote, a professor of theology and author. The conversation focuses on two recent pieces by Dr. Bacote: a chapter on Kuyper and Race in Calvinism for a Secular Age and a short book entitled Reckoning with Race and Performing the Good News. Among the topics we discuss:
* Dr. Bacote's testimony of his encounter with Abraham Kuyper's theology and racism, marked by delight, dissonance, distress, and decision.
* Why it is so important to listen to the testimonies of those who have struggled to reconcile evangelicalism's promise with its failures
* Why Dr. Bacote has decided to stay within the evangelical movement and what resources are available for reckoning with race and renewing the movement
* Why we must take culture seriously as we interpret Scripture
* The most important resources from Kuyper and what other thinker Kuyperians should get to know.
Resources mentioned in this podcast:
Dr. Bacote's article, "Gifts from…
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Mar 22, 2022
RENEWING Our Imaginations with Jessica Hooten Wilson (ep. 21)
On this episode of the podcast we are joined by professor and author Dr. Jessica Hooten Wilson, to talk about her new book, The Scandal of Holiness. Together we discuss how reading good books can renew our imagination, allowing us to keep company with "literary saints." Among the questions we discuss:
* What makes a character a literary saint, and why should we spend time in their company?
* Why do we have such a hard time trusting holiness, and what do we miss if we lose sight of it?
* Should we seek suffering? How do we distinguish between asceticism and masochism?
* How do various means of engagement (literature, art, contemplation) shape our imagination?
* Who are some lesser known authors that Christians should read?
Books mentioned in our conversation:
Moses, Man of the Mountain by Zora Neale Hurston
Silence by Shūsaku Endō
On Reading Well by Karen Swallow Prior
Book of the Dun Cow by Walter Wangerin Jr.
Kristin Lavransdatter by Sigrid Undset
A Lesson Before D…
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Mar 8, 2022
REDEEMING Power with Diane Langberg (ep. 20)
On this episode of the podcast, I am joined by guest co-host Dr. Tara Boer (professor of social work). Together we interview Dr. Diane Langberg, an internationally recognized psychologist, counselor, and speaker, who is also the author of the book Redeeming Power: Understanding Authority and Abuse in the Church (Brazos, 2020). Among the topics we discuss:
* How do we define power, vulnerability, and abuse? How can we identify "spiritual abuse" in a church context?
* Why have some Christians been resistant to the #metoo or #churchtoo movements? Are false accusations a legitimate threat?
* What does it mean to redeem power? What safeguards can be put in place, especially in male-dominated settings?
* How do we support victims and help them heal?
* How have you, during a 50+ year career dealing with these difficult issues, found the courage and hope to continue?
Dr. Tara Boer's review at In All Things: https://inallthings.org/the-power-within-us-a-review-of-redeeming-power/
D…
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Feb 22, 2022
RESOURCING in a Crisis of Expertise with Josh Reeves (ep. 19)
On this episode of the podcast, I am joined by guest co-host Dr. Jeff Ploegstra (professor of biology). Together we interview Dr. Josh Reeves, Director of the Samford Center for Science and Religion at Samford University, and author of the book Redeeming Expertise, Scientific Trust and the Future of the Church (Baylor, 2021). Among the topics we discuss:
* How to make sense of the crisis of expertise in which we find ourselves - is there a way to redeem expertise?
* Distinguishing three forms of expertise, and placing scientific expertise in perspective
* How knowledge is always a communal project, requiring us to trust others and to cultivate communities of critical thinking.
* On the possibilities and limitations of science, what science does well and what it can't do
Dr. Ploegsta's review: https://inallthings.org/scientists-arent-hostile-alien-priests-a-review-of-redeeming-expertise/
Follow Dr. Reeves: https://twitter.com/joshareeves
Buy the book: https://www.baylorpress…
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Feb 7, 2022
RETRIEVING Kuyper, Warts & All with Jessica and Robert Joustra (ep. 18)
On this episode of the podcast, I talk with Jessica and Robert Joustra, about the new book they've coedited, Calvinism for a Secular Age: A Twenty-First Century Reading of Abraham Kuyper's Stone Lectures. Among the topics we discuss:
– How can we distinguish between all the varieties of Calvinism and Neo-Calvinism?
– Why should North Americans living in the 21st century be interested in lectures on Calvinism given by a 19th century Dutch polymath?
– When it comes to continuing an intellectual tradition, what is the relationship between looking back and looking forward?
– How should we think about Kuyper's flaws, and how should we complicate his legacy?
– What can the Kuyperian tradition learn from the wider Christian world?
– Why might Kuyper's vision be especially appropriate for "a secular age"?
To read a short piece in which the authors introduce their book: https://inallthings.org/can-calvinists-save-the-world-a-review-of-calvinism-for-a-secular-age/
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Jan 25, 2022
RESTING in a Frantic World with April Fiet (ep. 17)
On this episode of the podcast, I am joined by guest co-host Erin Olson, and together we talk with April Fiet about her new book, The Sacred Pulse: Holy Rhythms for Overwhelmed Souls (Broadleaf Books). Among the topics we discuss:
– How those of us who are adept at "managing our time" may actually just be better at "hiding our weariness"
– How we can find holy rhythms in the midst of a culture and time where we are able and encouraged to "work anywhere and everywhere and at any time"
– How we can add practices in a way that is life-giving and sustainable instead of "one more thing" on the to do list
– On the way that felt futility of living intentionally, the difficulty of friendship as an adult, and ways to normalize grief and messiness
– One thing to know, and one thing to do if we want to change
To read Dr. Erin Olson's review of April Fiet's book: https://inallthings.org/reimagining-rhythms-a-review-of-the-sacred-pulse/
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Jan 11, 2022
RECOVERING from our Devices with Felicia Wu Song (ep. 16)
On this episode of the podcast, I am joined by guest co-host Kayt Frisch, and together we talk with sociologist Dr. Felicia Wu Song about her new book, Restless Devices: Recovering Personhood, Presence, and Place in a Digital Age. Among the topics we discuss:
– How our devices (phones and computers) are more than mere tools, and what it means to evaluate them as cultural artifacts, the results of complex processes, driven by diverse influences
– What Christian designers and programmers can do to as they work in digital spaces
– How we should think about counter-cultural movements like "digital minimalism" and how the Christian story offers something distinct
– Why it is so difficult for us to change our digital habits and whether there are better ways to approach our counter-formation
– One thing to know, and one thing to do if we want to change
To read Dr. Kayt Frisch's review of Dr. Song's book: https://inallthings.org/corrupted-comforts-a-review-of-restless-devices/
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Nov 30, 2021
REUNITING Faith & Science with Jennifer Powell McNutt (ep. 15)
On this episode of the podcast, we talk with theologian and historian Rev. Dr. Jennifer Powell McNutt about the relationship between science and theology. Together we discuss:
– How the narrative of a conflict between faith and science developed, and how this story of obscures important historical realities, especially during the Reformation
– The relationship between science and theology as well as between God’s two books: the book of creation and the book of Scripture.
– How we think about scientific investigation given the tension between suspicion (because of human sin) and confidence (because of the divine image and the reliability of human faculties)
– “Epistemic trespassing” and how pastors can live with the burden of being expected to weigh in on scientific issues, and how they build bridges between science and theology.
Books mentioned in this podcast:
History of the Conflict Between Religion and Science by John William Draper (1874)
A History of the Warfa…
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Nov 16, 2021
PLANTING Trees, Songs, & Stories with Andrew Peterson (ep. 14)
On this episode of the podcast, we talk with singer-songwriter, author-beekeeper Andrew Peterson, about his new book The God of the Garden: Thoughts on Creation, Culture, and the Kingdom. Together we discuss:
– How the Covid-lockdown forced AP to put down roots after being on the road for the last 25 years, and the sort of creativity that being rooted in a physical place can produce.
– Why trees have so captivated AP's imagination and anchored his memory.
– How working with our hands connects to working with words, music, and art.
– On planting seeds of hope amidst seasons of sadness, and what it means to remain open and vulnerable instead of hardening our hearts
– On telling stories that are deeply (not necessarily overtly) Christian, and how AP navigates the tension between Fall and Redemption.
– On practices that nourish ordinary creativity among artists and non-artists alike.
The podcast includes a short reading of the opening pages of the book (12:36).
Order Th…
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Nov 2, 2021
STAYING in Evangelical Spaces with Dan Stringer (ep. 13)
On this episode of the podcast, we talk with Dan Stringer, a pastor and team leader for InterVarsity in Hawai'i. He is also the author of a new book, Struggling with Evangelicalism: Why I Want to Leave and What It Takes to Stay. Together we discuss:
* How Dan's background as a "third culture kid" who lived in five countries on three continents + being a part of 9 (!) different denominations gave him unique lenses to see evangelicalism's strengths and weaknesses.
* How to define "evangelicalism," and the difference it makes when approaching evangelicalism as "brand" vs. a "space"
* Four stages of struggling with evangelicalism: awareness, appreciation, repentance, and renewal
* What it means to make evangelical spaces "better than we found them."
Order from IVP: https://ivpress.com/struggling-with-evangelicalism
Follow Dan on Twitter: https://twitter.com/RevDanStringer (@RevDanStringer)
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Oct 19, 2021
TRANSLATING the First Nations NT with Terry Wildman (ep. 12)
On this episode of the podcast, we talk with Terry Wildman, founder of Rain ministries and head of the translation team for the First Nations Version, an indigenous translation of the New Testament that involved a council of 12 and over 50 representatives from the native peoples of North America.
See the website here: https://firstnationsversion.com/
Order from IVP: https://www.ivpress.com/first-nations-version
My co-host for this episode is Dr. Gayle Doornbos, professor of theology at Dordt. Together we discuss:
* The story behind this indigenous translation of the New Testament and the many contributing scholars
* The history of colonialism and how the translation team handled English words with negative connotations for native peoples (e.g., sin, kingdom)
* The unique practice of translating names by what they mean, so that Jerusalem is rendered "Village of Peace" and Paul is "Small Man".
* What it might mean for the larger body of Christ to receive this new translation…
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Oct 5, 2021
SHOUTIN’ in the Fire with Danté Stewart (ep. 11)
On this episode of the podcast, we talk with Danté Stewart about his new book, Shoutin' in the Fire, a memoir about being Black and Christian in America. My guest co-host is Dr. Howard Schaap, professor of English at Dordt. Together we discuss:
* What it means to "shout in the fire," holding onto an honest, vulnerable, and resilient faith amidst pain, anger, and despair.
* How his sense of the gospel of Jesus has been clarified and complicated over the course of his journey.
* The importance of "keeping our eyes on the body" as we live in this world.
* Literary and theological sources for the Black prophetic imagination, and how Danté found his writing voice.
Here is a link to Howard Schaap's review at our online journal: https://inallthings.org/the-prophetic-and-black-and-pentecostal-voice-a-review-of-shoutin-in-the-fire/
As mentioned in the intro, Danté mentions no less than 30 authors, and we have pulled together a list below:
Books mentioned by Danté:
Jesmyn Ward,…
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Sep 21, 2021
WONDERING about Faith & Doubt with Elizabeth Hall (ep. 10)
On this episode of the podcast, we talk with psychologist and researcher Elizabeth Hall about the psychology of doubt. This episode is in response to Dr. Hall's article, "Teaching Students to Doubt Well: The Roles of Intellectual Humility and Uncertainty Tolerance" (published in spring 2021 issue of Christian Scholar's Review). My co-host for this episode is Dr. Channon Visscher, professor of chemistry and planetary science at Dordt. Some topics we discuss:
* What do we gain from paying attention to the psychological dimensions of doubt?
* How can we think of faith and doubt in a way that takes rational, intuitive, and relational knowing into account?
* What is "intellectual humility" and "uncertainty tolerance," and how do we develop these traits?
* What are some strategies and practices for helping people "doubt well"?
To read the article: https://christianscholars.com/teaching-students-to-doubt-well-the-roles-of-intellectual-humility-and-uncertainty-tolerance/
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Sep 7, 2021
WORLDVIEWING around the Globe with Richard Mouw & Matthew Kaemingk (ep. 9)
On this episode of the podcast, we talk with theologians Richard Mouw and Matthew Kaemingk about a new book, edited by Matt and dedicated to Rich - Reformed Public Theology: A Global Vision for Life in the World (Baker Academic, 2021). The theme question of the episode: "why does theology matter for public life?" Some topics we discuss:
* What do you mean by "Reformed"? What is "public" theology? And what is the unique contribution of the Reformed tradition to public theology?
* In a book with 20+ authors of different nationalities, vocations, and denominations, what are the common threads these authors share?
* As we seek to live in a pluralistic world, how do we learn to listen genuinely and to speak gently, with firm conviction?
* What are some characteristic flaws or blind spots of the Reformed tradition that this book celebrates?
* What does Reformed public theology have to say when it comes to institutional power, institutional sin, and institutional reform?
* What d…
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Aug 24, 2021
WINNING and What it Cost Us with Kristin Kobes Du Mez (ep. 8)
On this episode of the podcast, we talk with historian Kristin Kobes Du Mez about her NYT bestselling book Jesus and John Wayne (Liveright, 2020). The theme question of the episode: "what have we lost in our desire to win?" Some topics we discuss:
* What surprised Kristin in her research and in the book's reception
* Who is an evangelical? Who gets to say what is mainstream to evangelicalism and what is on the fringe?
* How "Reformed" communities who have traditionally been "evangelical adjacent" fit into the picture.
* What to do when we realize how much popular culture shapes Christian identity, and what it takes to resist, repent, and repair.
* Areas for further research (the need for ethnographic studies!) and where the conversation can go from here.
If you'd like to read more you can check out the In All Things review of Kristin's book (written by my guest co-host, Scott Culpepper): https://inallthings.org/what-has-jesus-to-do-with-john-wayne-a-review-of-jesus-and-john…
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May 25, 2021
DYING and Embracing Mortality with J.Todd Billings (ep. 7)
On this episode of the podcast, we talk with J. Todd Billings, a theologian and author, about his book The End of the Christian Life (Brazos, 2020). Our theme question: what does it mean to embrace our mortality? Among the topics we discuss:
* On being immersed in the cancer community after a terminal cancer diagnosis
* How Western culture works to obscure the reality of our mortality
* How we can live in the tension between our smallness and the grand calling to make/change culture
* On what a "good funeral" looks like and what the Christian hope actually is
* How the Covid pandemic has brought our mortality (and denial) into sharper relief.
If you'd like to read more you can check out our review of the book (written by my guest co-host, Todd Zuidema) here: https://inallthings.org/memento-mori-a-review-of-the-end-of-the-christian-life/
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May 11, 2021
JOINING and Celebrating Multiethnic Stories with Chandra Crane (ep. 6)
On this episode of the podcast, we talk with Chandra Crane, a writer and leader in multiethnic ministry initiatives, about her new book Mixed Blessing (InterVarsity Press, 2020). Our theme question: what does it mean to see, steward, and celebrate multi-ethnicity? Among the topics we discuss:
* How multiethnic (mixed) people process questions like "where are you from?" and "what are you?"
* The blessing that mixed people are to the church and the world
* Ways to think about distinctions between ethnicity & race, "cultural appropriation" vs. "cultural appreciation", and cultural stereotypes vs. "cultural prototypes".
* Why it is important to talk about ethnicity as part of talking about our identity in Christ (and the identity of Christ!)
If you'd like to read more you can find an excerpt of Chandra's book here: https://inallthings.org/whole-people-wholly-reliant-on-jesus/
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Apr 27, 2021
WORKING and Worshipping with Cory Willson (ep. 5)
On this episode of the podcast, we are joined by a guest host, Jeremy Perigo, and together we talk with Cory Willson about his new book (coauthored with Matthew Kaemingk) Work and Worship (Baker Academic). Our theme question: what does it mean to reconnect our worship to our work? Among the topics we discuss:
* If work and worship are meant to be connected, how did they get disconnected? What sort of theologies have fueled this divide, and how do we heal it?
* Why is a focus on practices and rituals critical, rather than just having a good "theology of work"?
* How do we bring out work into the place of worship, and how do we bring worship into our place of work?
* Is there a hidden assumption that our work will always be meaningful and fulfilling? How do we include those whose experience of work is full of pain?
* How has the Covid-19 pandemic shifted our understanding of gathered worship and gathered work?
If you'd like to read our review of the biography, written by Dr.…
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Apr 13, 2021
REFORMING the Faith with James Eglinton (ep. 4)
On this episode of the podcast, we are joined by a guest host, Gayle Doornbos, and together we talk with James Eglinton about his new biography of Dutch theologian and polymath Herman Bavinck. Our theme question: what does it mean to live with a faith that is rooted in the past, yet responsive to the challenges and questions of the present? Among the topics we discuss:
* How we remember the past: the difference between "critical" and "commemorative" biography
* The relationship of the two monumental figures from the Dutch Calvinist tradition: Abraham Kuyper and Herman Bavinck
* How Bavinck might respond to the idea of "always reforming"
* How Bavinck managed to maintain friendship and to integrate so many voices across ideological virtues
* Why Bavinck was pessimistic about the future of Calvinism in America, and what he meant when he said, "Calvinism is not the only the truth."
If you'd like to read our review of the biography, written by Dr. David Westfall, you can find t…
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Mar 30, 2021
DOUBTING without Losing Faith with A.J. Swoboda (ep. 3)
On this episode of the podcast, we are talking to A.J. Swoboda, a pastor, professor, and writer, about his new book After Doubt. Our theme question for the episode: what does it mean to question our faith without losing it?
* Discerning between honest and dishonest questioning
* How to honor the communities that nurtured us while also acknowledging their limitations
* Counsel for those who are doubting, as well as for those who are trying to walk with doubters (parents & teachers)
* The importance of the local congregation when it comes to holding onto faith
As we’ve done with previous episodes, we are giving away five copies of A.J.'s book. You can enter the drawing by following In All Things on Social Media, sharing or re-tweeting this episode; leaving a review of the podcast will get you three bonus entries! (tag us or let us know to make sure your name is included). Thanks again for tuning in!
Twitter: @in_all_things
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Mar 17, 2021
MAKING Beautiful Things with Makoto Fujimura (ep. 2)
On this episode of the podcast, we have a feature conversation with acclaimed artist Makoto Fujimura about his new book, Art + Faith, and what he calls the "theology of making." Topics we discuss:
* The connections between creating art and the beauty of the gospel
* Why children seem to know how important creativity is, and what has gone wrong for the rest of us
* Why a liberal arts education matters more, not less, in an increasingly technological world
* Ordinary creativity for those who are not artists
* How we can cleanse our cultural imagination and move forward in a polarized world.
During the two weeks after this episode is released, we are giving away five copies of Mako's new book, Art + Faith. To enter that giveaway, follow this link: https://kingsumo.com/g/z5wjkr/in-all-things-podcast-art-faith-giveaway
For more information about In All Things, you can find us at inallthings.org or follow us on Twitter: @in_all_things
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Mar 1, 2021
WAITING while We Weep with Tish Harrison Warren (ep. 1)
On this inaugural episode of the podcast, we have a feature conversation with author Tish Harrison Warren about prayer and about waiting for God. We talk about "praying other people's prayers" and how being connected to the larger church offers us resources beyond ourselves. We also discuss quiet grief, and how being a believer changes the experience of waiting for God.
We also have a short chat with Channon Visscher, the director of the Andreas Center about the vision of In All Things and the plan for this podcast.
During the first two weeks of the podcast, we are giving away five copies of Tish's new book, Prayer in the Night. To enter that giveaway, follow this link: https://kingsumo.com/g/dgkoxe/in-all-things-podcast-prayer-in-the-night-giveaway
For more information about In All Things, you can find us at inallthings.org or follow us on Twitter: @in_all_things
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