On this episode, especially for Mother’s Day in the UK we have Marjorie Ingall, Author of ‘Mamaleh Knows Best’, ‘Tablet Magazine’ columnist and half of ‘Sorry Watch’ to discuss American Jewish Culture, comedy, the history of geeks and how to apologise. At the moment it’s hard for most of us as we can’t see our mums but on behalf of all children, thanks Mum. This was recorded all the way back at Limmud Festival 2018, but I wanted to preserve this gem of an interview for Mother’s Day.
Hayden Cohen 0:00
Hello and welcome to the Bagel Bite with me, Hayden Cohen. On today’s show, especially for Mother’s Day in the UK. We have Marjorie Ingall, author of ‘Mamaleh Knows Best’, ‘Tablet Magazine’ columnist and half of ‘SorryWatch’ to discuss American Jewish culture, comedy, the history of geeks and how to apologise. I say this knowing that at the moment, it’s hard for most of us as we can’t see our mums, but on behalf of all children, Thanks Mum. This was recorded all the way back at Limmud Festival 2018 but I wanted to preserve this gem of an interview for Mother’s Day. Just a quick note before I hit play. I know that I said this will be the last episode of the series, but I think there’s one more left. In light of the terror and madness that is Coronavirus, I want to delve into the Jewish response. Whether it’s provision of services, how to prepare for Pesach/ Passover, or helping people if it is even a twist of Jewishness in there, please get in touch ASAP at bagelpodcast.com. Right, let’s get on with it.
Hayden Cohen 1:03
How have you come to be sat in that chair?
Marjorie Ingall 1:05
Let’s see, I think I could thank ‘PJ Library’. They distribute Jewish children’s books all over the world and I think I have them to thank. Because this year, they gave whoever wanted it, my book, ‘Mamaleh Knows Best’, Even though it’s not a children’s book, it’s a grown up book. And I think that made more people in the UK know who I was.
Hayden Cohen 1:26
So, what’s the book about?
Marjorie Ingall 1:28
It’s a sort of funny book of social history and a parenting book. And it’s a look at the history of the Jewish mother stereotype throughout history and sort of where it came from in our pop culture consciousness. But also if you broaden the lens and look at Jewish mothers, not just in the sort of post war period that the jokes came out of, but throughout various different Jewish cultures from the Middle Ages onward, we’ll discover that while there is some truth to the stereotype, there’s also a lot of not truth. And there’s a reason why Jews have been so successful way out of proportion to our numbers in the population and in all kinds of different fields and in times when we have been oppressed and in times when we’ve been pretty acculturated, and I think that has something to do with our values, and I think the primary transmitters of values are often the mothers so we should pat ourselves on the back for doing something right.
Hayden Cohen 2:24
One of my favorite depictions of Jewish mothers recently, you must have seen ‘Crazy Ex-Girlfriend’?
Marjorie Ingall 2:28
Yes. Yeah, love.
Hayden Cohen 2:30
That is a fascinating depiction, isn’t it?
Marjorie Ingall 2:33
Well, part of what I think is so interesting is the stereotype of the Jewish mother pretends to be loving and giving and generous, but it’s really monstrously self absorbed and neurotic and clingy and provincial. And when you look at the last five years, in which Jewish women are actually creating the comedy, as opposed to Jewish men, you have a much more nuanced depiction of Jewish mothers. My example more so than ‘Crazy Ex Girlfriend’ is, do you have ‘Broad City’ here?
Hayden Cohen 3:05
We do. I haven’t seen it, but..
Marjorie Ingall 3:07
So, ‘Broad City’. Susie Essman who was that incredible honking New York Jewish voice who is a regular on ‘Curb Your Enthusiasm’. She plays the mother of one of the characters and while she has the busy-bodyness of the Jewish mother stereotype, she’s also so smitten with and so proud of her child. Not in this braggy kind of way — and her child’s friends and they go out and they get manicures together and they go out and go shopping for knockoff designer handbags in Chinatown together and it is so close and warm and loving. That is I think a thing that we don’t usually see in the Jewish mother depiction.
Hayden Cohen 3:43
See ‘Big Mouth’? I don’t know if you’ve seen that on that on Netflix?
Marjorie Ingall 3:45
I love ‘Big Mouth’.
Hayden Cohen 3:47
‘Big Mouth’ feels very Jewish.
Marjorie Ingall 3:49
Hayden Cohen 3:50
I felt that the writers there — I think the mix was men and women, right?
Marjorie Ingall 3:53
Yeah. John Mulaney isn’t Jewish but the others– but certainly Nick Kroll is super Jewish. Yes. Solomon Schechter Day School of Long Island, or Westchester.
Hayden Cohen 4:05
I love the fact you know the school.
Marjorie Ingall 4:06
I gave a speech. I had a little joke about how even though it’s hard to figure out what is a Jew today, what is Jewish humour today when we’re not all from the same sort of ‘shtetly’ background now and yet there are still all these incredibly young Jews in American comedy. So I had a whole list of young Jewish comics and I said something like “Nick Kroll, Solomon Schecter of Westchester represent.” I was in this crowd of older women, and they all like laughed uproariously. And I’m like “Oh my g-d! I’m so much funnier than I think I am.” And then it turned out his mother was in the room and so all of his friends, his mother’s friends. So his mother’s very active in the Jewish community. I’m not quite sure what an American Jewish identity is right now. And I don’t know if you would call what somebody like Amy Schumer say does, Jewish comedy but why are there so many of us? What is that about? I don’t know.
Hayden Cohen 4:31
I think maybe it’s that we’ve got a tradition of being subvertive and we’re encouraged to be so
Marjorie Ingall 4:57
You know, I think that the old saying about you know, you have to laugh otherwise you’d cry. I think that a part of Jewish identity is: A. make fun of yourself before someone else will do it for you. And B. we’ve had so much tragedy and so many expulsions, that what are the things that you can take with you from country to country? You can take literacy and you can take humour.
Hayden Cohen 5:16
Well, I think even beyond that though, that you have a look at the type of people that end up in comedy. Most of us in the comedy world, we’re the the awkward kids that were bullied right?
Marjorie Ingall 5:25
Hayden Cohen 5:26
And so and what that does is it says, Well, if people are gonna laugh at us, you might as well get paid for it, right?
Marjorie Ingall 5:31
No, but you’re right. You know, it’s funny, because the session that I just came from doing was on ‘Why We Should Want to Raise Geeks’, why parents should want geeky children.
Hayden Cohen 5:40
I did a show called ‘Age of the Geek’.
Marjorie Ingall 5:41
Yeah, (laughs) team represent. Yeah, you know, I think that geek’iness and comedy, I think are certainly tied. And I think that there’s a certain amount of self awareness that it takes and a certain amount of ‘I know I’m never going to be the cool kid. I know ‘I’m never going to be the popular kid’ but I can be A: really true to myself. And I can B: make people see what is special and delightful about me.
Hayden Cohen 6:04
Beyond that, what does Jewish identity look like in America? Because I feel like it’s an interesting place right now.
Marjorie Ingall 6:09
I don’t have a lot to compare it to. It’s all I know. But I also feel like there’s a difference between professional Jews and the larger pool of American Jews. And I think that you wouldn’t know from the organised American Jewish community often just how liberal the larger Jewish community is, in general, because there are a lot of very loud voices on the right, maybe more so than on the left. But when you look at American Jewry at large, we are a super left leaning group. We are as you are here, very driven right now by feeling antisemitism from the left. Just super painful. But overall, the philosophy of American Jews about sort of religious freedom of tolerance, of ecumenism, anti-racism that is pretty strong and has remained the same on the left. The history of American Jews in the civil rights movement. I feel like we’re still there. And that’s still a huge part of our identity as American Jews, for better and worse,
Hayden Cohen 7:08
On an average day does it really affect anything? You just go about your business right?
Marjorie Ingall 7:11
I think nobody goes through their day thinking about what is my identity, right. So as a human as a Jew, as a woman today, put a little sign on your head all the time. I do think it’s funny. I imagine that it’s the same here. Lenny Bruce had this routine about how I live in New York and in New York, everything is Jewish. All the non Jews are Jews. There’s the whole the Jewish goyish routine and in New York, just everything is Jewish, but it is funny to get out in the world, make eye contact with somebody else and I’m feeling Jewish feelings from you. And then it turns out, my mom made laughed because I when I was maybe six, I said “How do you always know when somebody is a Jew?” she just laughed and She’s like, “You’re gonna figure it out.”
Hayden Cohen 7:50
When I was at university, it was a really big campus. And I could tell these three women were Jewish just by how they walked.
Marjorie Ingall 8:00
(laughs) It’s a pity, this is not a visual medium because I would like to know what that looked like.
Hayden Cohen 8:05
And it’s weird — Like, I can’t explain how I knew — It’s weird — Yeah, I can’t — And then sure enough when they they came up, it wasn’t they weren’t wearing like particularly — kind of there’s some Jews that have that particular uniform where I could just tell and sure enough, I recognise when they got closer, and it was like weird
Marjorie Ingall 8:25
(laughs) Well, it’s funny since I’ve been here. Again, not a visual medium, but I have a whole lot of hair and a lot of curly hair. And I’ve been looking down at my phone and three times now somebody has come up to me and like excitedly called my by the wrong name and that I’ve looked up and they’ve been like, Oh, sorry. But yeah, we all have the same hair. Well, yeah.
Hayden Cohen 8:44
Or no hair.
Marjorie Ingall 8:45
Yes. Or that.
Hayden Cohen 8:47
So how long have you been writing for ‘The Tablet’?
Marjorie Ingall 8:50
Nine years at ‘The Tablet’. And then at ‘The Forward’ for seven before that.
Hayden Cohen 8:55
Marjorie Ingall 8:56
Ohh, yes. No hard feelings. Not on my end. And you know what I write for American secular magazines? I wrote my book. I have a ghostwriter. So I’ve written other people’s books, but if I told you who I’d have to kill you, yeah, so it’s just an endless hustle.
Hayden Cohen 9:15
So that’s the life of the writer isn’t it?
Marjorie Ingall 9:16
It is. I was a folklore and mythology major in college, which sounds like the most impractical field in the universe. And I was interested in either going to graduate school in folklore or becoming a journalist. And I just figured I’d apply for jobs in state folklore and folk life commissions and I’d apply for jobs at magazines. So whichever one I got first, that would be the sign that that was the field I should go into. And I got a magazine job. And I was like, that’s probably smart because journalism is a completely safe field that’s not going away. So that worked out really great. And now I’ve learned that all these big companies hire folklorists to talk about what the culture of the company is, what it should be, what our ethics are, making sure everybody knows our shared history. So it turned out the thing that was the impractical major might have been a surer bet.
Hayden Cohen 9:56
You don’t know though, do you?
Marjorie Ingall 9:57
You never know.
Hayden Cohen 9:58
You never know .
Marjorie Ingall 9:59
That’s all Jewish philosophy. You never know.
Hayden Cohen 10:02
Yeah, I think let’s say, you just throw stuff against the wall and hope.
Marjorie Ingall 10:05
Yeah, do stuff you like. Going back to the geeky talk that we were having before. Figure out what your passions are. Figure out if you can possibly find a way to engage them and hope that things work out. Well.
Hayden Cohen 10:16
What’s a geek?
Marjorie Ingall 10:16
Well, it’s from an old German word Gek, meaning somebody who bites the heads off chickens.
Hayden Cohen 10:21
I knew that. Of course, I knew that. I did an entire show about being a geek ’cause I knew that.
Marjorie Ingall 10:24
Of course you knew that. Do you know about the history of nerd?
Hayden Cohen 10:27
Um, when you tell me I’ll remember…
Marjorie Ingall 10:29
Dr. Seuss – ‘If I Ran the Zoo.’ He made up the word nerd in 1950.
Hayden Cohen 10:34
I didn’t know that. I didn’t know that. Oh cool.
Marjorie Ingall 10:35
Yeah, no, I think geek is a word that gets a bad rap, as you know, and a geek is the best possible thing to be
Hayden Cohen 10:42
Do you think there’s too much hipster in it now?
Marjorie Ingall 10:44
Oh, we didn’t even get to that in my thing. B`ut yeah, I mean, it seems like people who aren’t geeks are now want to sort of take on the mantle because there’s something cool about it
Hayden Cohen 10:54
More action is…. I was bullied all through school right? Let me be the geek.
Marjorie Ingall 10:57
Hayden Cohen 10:57
You can’t be the geek.
Marjorie Ingall 10:58
Hayden Cohen 10:58
Oh, I suffered for this, I suffered for this. let me have it.
Marjorie Ingall 11:02
Yeah, fakes fake geeks
Hayden Cohen 11:04
Can you identify with Judaism without identifying with suffering?
Marjorie Ingall 11:09
(laughs) I don’t even know what Judaism without suffering would look like…..
Hayden Cohen 11:15
I come from, it’s very different to America. Right? So the the norm here is Orthodox, but Traditional, Traditional but Orthodox, whereas I think in America, not so much.
Marjorie Ingall 11:24
Not at all, yeah
Hayden Cohen 11:25
And I find that say the reform, the more progressive movements are really optimistic. And it’s something that I find quite difficult. In the same way I do get irritated with rabbis always talk about all everyone wants to kill us. And the reality is, most people don’t care. Right?
Marjorie Ingall 11:42
Right. They’re just worried about getting through their own day.
Hayden Cohen 11:45
But in terms of how it actually manifests itself, it’s really interesting that European Judaism feels a lot more negative probably because of its history.
Marjorie Ingall 11:53
And you could also argue that optimism is part of the American character. That we’re a new country. Yeah, you’re making a face at me. Well,
Hayden Cohen 12:01
Well, I think it’s just, it’s one thing that I think speaking for most Brits, it’s a weird thing that we find most irritating about Americans. That unwavering optimism.
Marjorie Ingall 12:08
Yes, we’re a nation of Golden Retrievers, basically, you know.
Hayden Cohen 12:13
Marjorie Ingall 12:14
Mr. Peanutbutter. (laughs)
Marjorie Ingall 12:18
Also, We’re a nation that really, really is fond of antidepressants. So it could just be that we’re medicated into joy and happiness. I don’t know. But I do feel like there is something inherently I can’t think of a lot of comedy that comes from a purely sunny place and certainly not Jewish comedy, and not American Jewish comedy. I mean, ‘Big Mouth’, our mutual favourite show that is a dark, dark, dark show. But that ultimately is really kind and sweet, you know, for something so incredibly filthy. And that feels very Jewish to me. But also, there’s somebody who hasn’t had any dark nights of the soul. I don’t think I want to know that person. Happy is particularly beautiful when you know how hard one it is. So I do think people who have fought to be happy are more interesting. Yeah, and I shouldn’t assume I don’t know what God only knows what
Hayden Cohen 13:06
Yeah, well, we don’t we don’t we don’t know what anyone’s going through, right? (We don’t.) It doesn’t mean I found as the older I’ve gotten, the more I’ve realised that just because I might have been successful in sport, whatever necessarily mean, the happier upbringing.
Marjorie Ingall 13:17
I get cranky because people always misattribute. The same be kind for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle because we know it’s not Plato, and we know it’s not Philo, but we don’t know who said it. But it is actually a good thing to think about. And another obsession that I was in earlier here at Limmud. Somebody said, just assume when somebody cuts you off in traffic, it’s always good to assume that they are pregnant and in labour, which, okay, a lot of them
Hayden Cohen 13:42
even if it turned out to be like a bald man.
Marjorie Ingall 13:44
Right, exactly (and laughs)
Hayden Cohen 13:45
laughs). in labour
Marjorie Ingall 13:46
(laughs) I used to live in California. My friend Susan is still in California. We thought it would be nice to be able to collaborate cross country on a project that we both were interested in. We’ve both written, journalistically separately about apologies. And so she approached me and said Do you want to do a website about apologies? And we did in the happy, optimistic Obama years, and then it turned out that apologies and the lack thereof became suddenly super, super resonant.
Hayden Cohen 14:14
Why do people find it so hard to apologise?
Marjorie Ingall 14:17
You tell me I bet. You know,
Hayden Cohen 14:19
I don’t find it hard to apologise.
Marjorie Ingall 14:20
Hayden Cohen 14:21
Is that weird?
Marjorie Ingall 14:22
it’s also funny cuz it’s sort of a British. It’s a British and Canadian stare, you know?
Hayden Cohen 14:27
Well, so I only apologise when I’m sorry.
Marjorie Ingall 14:30
Oh, you’ve consciously decided not to reflexively go: Oh, sorry. Sorry. Sorry.
Hayden Cohen 14:34
Yes, abs… Yeah, I did a session earlier and someone got offended at something that I was bemused. I didn’t know what I did to offend. It was a bit strange but I still apologised because I didn’t want to offend them. And I could see that they were offended by what I said
Marjorie Ingall 14:49
One of the things that we maintain at ‘SorryWatch’ is don’t apologise if you don’t mean it. You… It only gets you in worse trouble.
Hayden Cohen 14:56
Well, no, I I was sorry if I offended them.
Marjorie Ingall 14:59
If? You were sorry THAT you offended them?Yeah,
Hayden Cohen 15:02
Yeah, I was sorry THAT I offended them.
Marjorie Ingall 15:03
Right.(pause) Forgiveness is also important that we have to be able to think that people can learn like I think about when you were talking about the homophobia. I think about my elderly relatives before my brother came out just the worst faygeleh talk and, and they were able to learn. If someone slips up, we try to create the world we want to live in. And we want to try to educate people without…. The problem is when everybody screams at one person who screwed up at once they immediately shut down and the chance for learning goes away. So I feel like, saying to people, that we understand that they want to be their best selves. And here’s how this was a moment where they were not their best selves, and we know that they are capable of learning. We might not know that but we want to give them the CHANCE to do better. And the problem with the social media called call out culture is if we immediately assume A. that somebody can’t learn and B. that when we’re getting our own jollies out of feeling superior by attacking other people. It’s problematic. It doesn’t help us. It doesn’t help them.
Hayden Cohen 16:02
What would you say that line is?)
Marjorie Ingall 16:03
Okay. I’ve told the story before but um, you might like it because another adorable bald comedian Paul Scheer, he screwed up. It was not a humongous screw up. He tweeted or instagrammed, a picture of a table full of romance novels. And he totally made fun of them. They were I think they were all hockey romances. So of course, they all had titles that were plays on puck and stick. So Romance Twitter is terrifying. And all of the romance novelists and romance readers attacked him all at once and was like, “You’re sexist, you’re misogynist”. You are this thing that men just immediately go and attack this whole genre. And here’s what he did. First, he bought the book and tweeted the receipt. Then he read the book, and live tweeted his reading of the book. Um, so he turned it into an entertain…. Another thing is there’s a difference between public apologies and private apologies. And he understood that a public apology is a ritual. So he turned it into entertainment and he was casting the book in his head as he was reading it, and at the end, he said, and so he got all these new people following along as he read the book. And he was like, I want to apologise to the author, I did this knee jerk punching down thing of making fun of a thing I didn’t know existed, that I didn’t understand and that I didn’t understand was had been so maligned by so many people who are immediately defensive, because they’re so used to people making fun of them. And then he said he was going to buy the next book, and he personally apologised to the author. So he did all of the steps that you need to do when we talked about the steps of an essential apology, which is saying the thing you did wrong, acknowledging the effect using the words I’m sorry, and doing what you can to make it up to the other person, and he did all of those things
Hayden Cohen 17:39
Marjorie Ingall 17:39
I would like to think that, on the one hand, there are people who are irredeemable, but I would like to think that most of us screw up and we are redeemable.
Hayden Cohen 17:46
So I think maybe we need to spend more time celebrating these people that just do it. Right. Right? Yes,
Marjorie Ingall 17:50
Yes. I mean, in general, I mean, it’s fun to revel in stories of bad behaviour. I mean, they’re fun to hear. And you know, as we were talking about good being boring. As a parent, it’s a thing that you want to do is make sure that your kid hears stories of you celebrating good.
Hayden Cohen 18:03
Yeah, I think that at the same time you do end up with I’m not mentioning any names. But certain say Hollywood folk who have apologised for some horrendous things and suddenly been forgiven, like that disappear for three years and then come back and make it less mention no names, as we all know who we’re talking about.
Marjorie Ingall 18:21
Hayden Cohen 18:21
And that pretty uncomfortable and especially when you see that kind of double standard there a little bit.
Marjorie Ingall 18:25
(MARJORIE: Yup, Yeah). Y
Hayden Cohen 18:26
eah. I was brought up relatively traditional, right. And so Limmud is one place where you meet a plethora of interesting people like that I wasn’t particuliarly exposed to growing up and I can remember there was this one moment, it was Chanukah maybe five years ago, and I was chatting to a couple of my female friends and there might have been stood two or three feet away. And we’re just having an ordinary conversation. In the middle of it, this guy just walks up inbetween us, was back towards me and I was chatting them up. I’d never I’d never seen the world through that lens.
Marjorie Ingall 18:56
Right. It’s off. It’s I think, men through no fault of their own often just do not know what it is like to go through the world in a female body and just know in a
Hayden Cohen 19:08
(And we can’t) know.
Marjorie Ingall 19:09
Yes. Less barring some sort of Tootsie Mrs. Doubtfire kind of situation. But I just remember when my older daughter was 10 and told me “Oh, I don’t walk on that block walking the 10 blocks home from school, and it’s the same block I didn’t walk on”. And just knowing that at 10, she was being cat called. Like, it’s heartbreaking. And just the sheer amount of putting your keys between your fingers as you walk to your car and the stuff that men don’t even think about. No, and we made a joke when we came in here that I was coming into your room to record a podcast and like that’s already like, it’s funny, but it’s also not funny because you know, what is the thing that women think about?
Hayden Cohen 19:47
I was at a house party a few years ago, and I was staying, I was staying in the house, and I was going to have the living room. I was going to be on my own, but it’s quite a big living room with maybe two or three sofas. I just happen to overhear. There was another girl woman. She was a young woman, it was a long long commute back for us. Well, do you mind sharing that room with Hayden? And she just laughs and goes, No, it’s okay. He’s a non threatening male. And I was offended
Hayden Cohen 20:15
And then and then I reflected and I went, well, do I want to be a threatening male? No. And actually, I’m quite glad that my perception is not of a threatening male. But at the same time, it’s like, well, he’s not going to try anything because yeah, is a bit nebbishah. It’s, it’s a kind of it’s a subtext. Right?
Marjorie Ingall 20:34
Marjorie Ingall 20:35
Right. It says something about I don’t want to diminish the burden of being male too. You know? What does that say that the burden of masculinity as you’re supposed to be? But you are. You know, you’re supposed to be perceived as dangerous. That’s super distressing.
Hayden Cohen 20:49
(laughs) I’m so not dangerous
Marjorie Ingall 20:50
(LAUGHS)So the cultural campaign (LAUGHS)… Toxic masculinity is toxic for men and toxic for women. We all have a role to play in changing the culture.
Hayden Cohen 20:58
I have actually started now. I think maybe in the in the past three or four years having the confidence to call out language that’s unacceptable whereas before I might have just laughed like, yeah, or laughed uncomfortably. Now, Now I try to call it out.
Marjorie Ingall 21:14
I heard a kid say respond to I don’t remember now if it was a race…, I think it was a racist joke. It was innocent, but and it was so well done. It was ‘Oh um, I know you’re a kind person and that came across as very unkind. And like that was no, that’s such a powerful way to respond to something hateful.
Hayden Cohen 21:34
Yeah, that’s intense.
Marjorie Ingall 21:36
Right? But like, if you say something unacceptable, and a child says that to you,
Hayden Cohen 21:41
Marjorie Ingall 21:41
Whoo), you’re gonna you’re gonna
Hayden Cohen 21:42
Hayden Cohen 21:42
reflect on that but telling people also that I know that you don’t mean it. The way that that just came out is a good way to respond, I think in general, that, that
Hayden Cohen 21:50
it was said that to me, that would make me feel very small
Marjorie Ingall 21:52
As it should
Hayden Cohen 21:52
As it should. The thing within comedy there is there was a lot about why that line is and I find this a lot About offensive word Bingo. A little bit? So in terms of there’s a difference between making a joke about something that might be touchy, as opposed to making a joke about someone. Do you know what I mean?
Marjorie Ingall 22:11
Yes. When I did the Jewish mother joke presentation earlier and somebody said, Well, you know, how do you think Don Rickles would fare in this politically correct era? And I said, (chatter) Yeah, personally, I don’t use the term politically correct because that the people who tend to use that term are people who tend to be like, I’m mad that I can’t make fun of you know, (HAYDEN: right)people who I used to (HAYDEN: right)be able (HAYDEN: right) to make fun of, but A. no one owes you a platform. Freedom of speech does not mean you get a TV show and B. Look Don Rickles can always have a show on Fox News. Don Rickles can always have a podcast. There’s always going to be a place for people are going to want to go to hear humour that other people find offensive and you know God love you If that’s what you want to listen to. But if the market tells you the market says you know what, we just don’t think that’s funny anymore. Listen, some I’m not a capitalist in all ways, but sometimes the market knows.
Hayden Cohen 23:00
And that that feels like a very American and a very apt (LAUGHS). Marjorie, Thank you so much for your time.
Marjorie Ingall 23:08
That was good.
Hayden Cohen 23:09
Thanks, Marjorie. Until next time, Baglers.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai