It’s the Supernatural Finale Anniversary Special! Natalie and Cass are joined by Liliana, host of the Supernatural podcast St Alphonso's Academy of Squee and recent guest contributor here on Subjectify, to talk about the Supernatural series finale, and what the hell has happened since, a year after it all ended. Join us for a very special and very long celebration slash mourning slash something as we hype and gripe the demise of the show, air our worries about what’s become of the fandom, and beg the cast and crew to just be normal about gay people.
These shownotes are going to have a bit of a different structure to our usual here on Not About The Weather, for three reasons: a) this is an extremely long episode, b) it's probably going to be listened to by people other than our normal audience, and c) there may be parts that you want to hear and parts that you don't. So for the first time ever, we're including a detailed list of time stamps.
We respect that some fans do not want to engage with any positivity about the Supernatural finale, however Not About The Weather is always structured to include both a "Hype" and "Gripe" from each host about their topic of choice, and, although no one here loves the finale, all the hosts on this episode have tried to take it in good faith.
If you don't want to listen to our finale-related hypes - especially if you are triggered by Dean's death - that is all good. We don't really talk about it in detail, but everyone on this episode does accept that plot point as well as the Heaven endgame. We'd appreciate it if you keep things civil and don't come for our throats about the fact we don't have a moral objection to it. Just feel free to skip straight to 1 hour 30 mins to hear our grievances - that's where stuff starts getting really passionate, particularly the 45 minute segment griping about the attitude shift to "interpret" Castiel's queerness away. Good times.
Here's the detailed breakdown by time stamp:
0m 30s - Introduction of hosts.
6m 53s - We recap the plot of the Supernatural finale in the off chance any listeners haven't seen it.
11m 40s - Most people we know hate the finale very badly, and wanted or were expecting a happier ending where everyone lives a good life finally free of Chuck. We agree this was a very desirable ending, however, we do not hate the finale as much as some people do - in part because we were anticipated something much worse. We check in on how Liliana is feeling about it these days.
15m 21s - We get the aim of Dean's death, but we don't have to like it. But we all agree that Sam's ending was possibly the worst of them all, just in terms of what it implied about his character's personality and growth and decency and all that. Even though they died, Dean and Cas both felt landed and whole, as characters. Sam's ending was just depressing.
20m 55s - Even though that she didn't expect it to happen, Natalie believes that after 15 years, the show definitely could have gotten away with a happier ending while still remaining authentic to the Winchesters' journey, but we suspect that, for whatever reason, the powers that be just did not see a happier ending as truthful to what Supernatural is all about, despite the characters having earned it.
24m 59s But surprisingly, the finale was still a happier ending than Cass and Natalie expected. Regarding Castiel in particular, the bar was on the floor - we believed Misha wasn't coming back, and we were expecting a cruel, tragic utter lack of resolution that implied he would be stuck in the Empty having trauma dreams forever.
28m 50s - The overall Chuck as the writer villain plot and how it has recolored the whole show from the very beginning. The best thing about the Chuck twist was that it gave us, as viewers, a whole new show. Supernatural, from day one, is a brand new experience, knowing the truth about Chuck, and it makes the whole thing that much better. Is there a chance that Ben Edlund had this idea in mind way back in the day?
46m 30s - The redux, repair and freeing of Heaven as seen in the finale. Over the years, we weren't sure if the show was aware of how messed up their version of Heaven was, but setting it right or changing what happens to human souls after they die was a huge priority for us as fans, because no matter whether we saw the boys die or not in the finale, they are human and will one day eventually die. We support that the finale showed us this, and feel we wouldn't have trusted it if it wasn't via Dean. We really hope that fandom will get interested in exploring more Heaven-based fic sometime soon.
1hr 11m 25s - The fact that so many former SPN cast members and writers are killing it in their careers - it’s been a joy to watch because of course it’s a huge group after 15 years, but a lot of them are reaching new heights (Kathryn & Shoshannah with Marvel, J2’s shows, Misha’s many pursuits, Ruthie & Mark S on Doom Patrol, Rich directing lots of TV) and how it’s just lovely to see them thriving professionally while still remaining part of our community.
1hr 33m 08s - The cancellation of Wayward Sisters. Yes, we're still mad about it, but it's relevant today because we believe that if that show had been running in tandem with Supernatural, the Supernatural finale endgame would be entirely different. We feel absolutely certain that if Wayward had been picked up, none of the boys would’ve died at the end.
1hr 44m 48s - The COVID finale. If we're going to hate the finale, we want to at least hate the real version. We believe that the same plot points may have felt different if a different tone was taken, and the fact that there will always be a big asterisk next to the finale in terms of what it was meant to be, is infuriating. And don't get us started on Misha's absence. Plus, even if we didn't love the finale, the show deserved to get to do what it really wanted to do - not be hobbled by a pandemic.
2hr 02m 49s - The fact that people continue to invalidate the Destiel confession a year later. It was gay, it was romantic, just let us have it. Even the cast are walking back previous statements, which is really disappointing. It’s dangerous, it’s gaslighting, and it's a really bad look for a show with a significant queer fanbase. We really don't like that the concept of art being "open to interpretation" - a good concept that we agree to in theory - is being weaponized to basically say "if this character being queer upsets you, you can explain it away."
2hr 46m 19s - Two Truths and a Lie: Cass Edition, about Old Fandom Lore
2hr 54m 14s - Ask NATW Anything: “What do you all feel is the most important fandom shift post-finale? Do you think there has been one?” Let's just say we have a LOT to unleash for this one, including the loss of conventions, the puriteen police, and the fact that people still aren't ready to have differing finale opinions without getting extremely combative or traumatized. Liliana addresses plenty of this in the article she shared on Subjectify for the anniversary as well.
3hr 18m 30s
- Bonus Ask NATW Anything: “What did I ever do to deserve this
?” We apologize to a dear friend and explain how we three all met and spent time together at 2018 JIBCon in Rome. Christine Baranski was involved.
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