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Conversations about trading, investing, and personal finance with the smartest people in the industry.
Oct 24, 2020
The right way to invest in mid-cap funds and small-cap funds with Rahul Singh
One of the things that investors struggle with the most is with having the right expectations when investing and we've talked about this in the previous episodes as well. Mid-cap funds and small-cap funds tend to have higher returns than large-cap funds. But what most investors don't realize is that those higher returns come with a cost - that is higher risk or volatility. Most often than not, they just look at line charts comparing large-cap funds with mid and small-cap funds without looking at the deep and sharp drawdown and invest. If you look at the inflows and outflows of mid-cap and small-cap funds, you can clearly see that most retail investors tend to invest in these funds when they have already gone up and sell when they crash. So, in this conversation, I caught up with Rahul Singh, the Chief Investment Officer (CIO) of Equities at Tata Asset Management. In this conversation Rahul talks about: * Whether the Indian markets are too small enough for good opportunities the nature of mid and small caps and how should investors think about them and allocate to them. * His own investing philosophy and that of Tata Mutual Fund * His thoughts on the current market phase * Current market valuations * International diversification * Large-caps vs mid-caps. * Is it the right time to invest in mid-caps and the case for investing in mid-caps and small-caps * How to invest in mid-caps and small-caps * His own investing philosophy * Investing mistakes and lessons Prateek Singh is the founder of LearnApp, an online learning platform with courses on investing, personal finance, trading and more, do check it out.
Oct 7, 2020
Making sense of the markets that don't make sense with Anand Radhakrishnan
To say this year has been a roller-coaster ride for the markets would be an understatement. A lot of new investors saw their first serious market crash since 2008, although it didn't last as long, it was brutal nonetheless. But what was surprising was the dramatic recovery even as all the economic data was dismal. We wanted to make sense of the disconnect between the real economy and the stock market and also how investors should look at investing going forward. So Prateek caught up with Anand Radhakrishnan, the Chief Investment Officer of Equity at Franklin Templeton India. In this absolutely brilliant and wide-ranging conversation, Anand talks about: * The opposite journeys of the economy and the markets * The major economic concerns, both Indian and global * Thought on the return of inflation globally * How should investors think about this current market phase * Why are the markets going up when the economic data is grim * Thoughts on the current market phase and the factors that would determine the market direction ahead * Current market valuations and concerns on potential overvaluation concerns * Sector leadership going forward * Thoughts on gold * How Anand invests personally * Some investing lessons he's picked up over his career Hope you folks enjoy this conversation with Anand. Prateek Singh is the founder of LearnApp, an online learning platform with courses on investing, personal finance, trading and more, do check it out. The information contained in this communication is not a complete representation of every material fact and is for informational purposes only. Statements/ opinions/recommendations in this communication which contain words or phrases such as “will”, “expect”, “could”, “believe” and similar expressions or variations of such expressions are “forward – looking statements”. Actual results may differ materially from those suggested by the forward-looking statements due to risk or uncertainties associated with our expectations with respect to, but not limited to, exposure to market risk, general economic and political conditions in India and other countries globally, which have an impact on the service and / or investments. There may have been changes in matters which affect the security subsequent to the date of this communication. Stocks / Sectors / Securities mentioned may or may not form part of fund’s portfolio and do not constitute investment advice or recommendation to trade in stock/ sector/ security in any manner whatsoever. The AMC, Trustee, their associates, officers or employees or holding companies do not assure or guarantee any return of principle or assurance of income on investments in these schemes. Please read the Scheme Information Document carefully in its entirety prior to making an investment decision and visit our website http://www.franklintempletonindia.com for further details. Mutual Fund investments are subject to market risks, read all scheme related documents carefully.
Sep 9, 2020
Basics of ETFs and asset allocation with ETFs with Siddharth Srivastava
Index funds and ETFs are steading becoming popular among Indian investors as they realize the importance of costs and the fact that fund managers generating alpha is hard. In the past year or so, we've discussed index funds and the merits of passive investing in multiple conversations but we haven't spoken much about Exchange Traded Funds (ETFs). The folks at Mirae are betting big on ETFs and they are launching a fund of fund (FOF) that invests in Nifty 50, Nifty Next 50, and Nifty midcap 150 ETF. This has the 2 benefits of equity taxation for the FOF and also the rebalancing inside the FOF is tax-free. So we caught up with Siddharth Srivastava, the head of ETF products at Mirae Asset India to talk about all things ETFs, index funds, and Mirae's new fund offering. In this conversation we talk about: * What an ETF is, how does it work and how is it different from an index mutual fund * The global and Indian ETF landscape * His thought on why ETFs aren't popular among retail investors * Liquidity issues in ETFs and what should investors do when buying and selling ETFs * Why Mirae is launching index ETFs when it is known for its active funds * What makes the new Mirae Asset Equity Allocator Fund of Fund unique and it's advantages * His thought son how investors can use Mirae Asset Equity Allocator Fund of Fund in a portfolio * Investing in this ETF vs buying the ETFs individually * His personal investing philosophy and his investing lessons * His favourite books Please enjoy this conversation with Siddharth of Mirae. We would love to hear your thoughts, feedback and suggestions on the podcast. Please do tweet your thoughts @CoinbyZerodha. You can also post your question on ETFs and mutual funds here on TradingQnA.
Jul 10, 2020
A step-by-step guide to investing in mutual funds - part 2
In part 1, Vidya spoke about why mutual funds, having the right expectations, setting goals, importance of asset allocation, and how to pick an equity fund. We figured given all the issues, the topic of debt mutual funds deserves a separate episode unto itself. Debt is supposed to be the boring part of your portfolio that provides stability while equity provides growth. But we've seen that investors driven by past returns, star ratings, and poor understanding of the various categories of funds have seen losses in the debt part of their portfolios. In this episode Vidya talks about: * The need for a debt fund in a portfolio * How to analyse and pick debt funds - the do's and dont's * Understanding credit risk and duration risk * How to use gilt funds * What is rebalancing, the need for rebalancing and how tor rebalancing? * Growth vs dividend plans and why it makes NO sense to invest in dividend plans * Vidya's investing philosophy * Her favourite books Do check out PrimeInvestor for some insightful perspectives on investing, fund selection, portfolio construction by Vidya and her colleagues. You can also check out this LearnApp course on the basics of investing in mutual funds.
Jul 4, 2020
A step-by-step guide to investing in mutual funds - part 1
Since Feb 2020, we've seen historic and unprecedented volatility in the Indian markets. We saw the fastest fall in the markets and also one of the fastest recoveries in the history of the Indian markets. All this was within a space of a few months. Surprisingly, we are seeing a sharp uptick in the number of new investors enter the markets, but the mistakes some of them are making are the same old ones. Over the past few months, we've had conversations with some of the most experienced participants in the markets to put this insanely volatile market phase in perspective. But we also realized that investors were lacking context on how to think about investing even before they put their first rupee to work. So we figured, there's no better time than this to do this. Given that Vidya has been interacting with investors for the better part of a decade in various capacities, we reached out to her and she graciously agreed to talk to us. In this conversation, Vidya talks to Prateek about: * How to think about risk and reward when investing * How to set goals and why a goal-based investing framework helps you invest better * How to have returns expectations * How do you figure out your risk tolerance * What the hell is asset allocation, why it matters and how to figure out the right asset allocation for you * Active vs passive funds * How to pick an equity fund * How to sort through the various styles of funds and how to include them in your portfolio * Do's and don't when picking an active funds * Growth vs dividend plans Once you have heard the conversation, you will have a framework on how to think about investing, why you need to invest, set goals and pick your first fund. Do check out PrimeInvestor for some insightful perspectives on investing, fund selection, portfolio construction by Vidya and her colleagues. You can also check out this LearnApp course on mutual funds. In part 2 of the conversation, we'll talk about the right way to pick debt funds, rebalancing and portfolio maintenance.
May 27, 2020
Introduction to asset allocation with Radhika Gupta
In this episode, Prateek (Founder of LearnApp) caught up with Radhika Gupta, the CEO of Edelweiss Mutual Fund. Radhika started her career with McKinsey and later joined AQR - the pioneering quantitative asset manager. She then started her own hedge fund which was acquired by Edelweiss Financial Services in 2014. She also led the acquisitions of JP Morgan Mutual Fund and Ambit's AIF business and became the CEO of Edelweiss MF. In this wide-ranging conversation Radhika talks about: * Her experience at AQR * Common behavioural mistakes that investors commit * What is asset allocation why is it important * Static vs dynamic asset allocation * Decodes balanced advantage funds, how they work, the various models etc * What are equity savings funds and how do they work * What makes Bharat Bond ETF special and the advantages * How she invests personally and a whole lot more... Please enjoy this conversation with Radhika. Do let us know your feedback by tweeting to us @zerodhaonline.
May 8, 2020
How to build a robust long term portfolio for all markets
As we publish this episode the markets continue to remain volatile and the Nifty 50 and Nifty Midcap 100 are down about 25% while the Nifty Smallcap 100 index is down by 33% year to date. We understand that these can be nerve-wracking times for you. With that in mind, over the last couple of weeks, we've published conversations with some of the smartest and most experienced people in the Indian markets, people who've seen the previous bear phases. And in this episode, Prateek Singh (Founder of LearnApp) caught up with I. V. Subramaniam (Subbu), the MD, CEO & CIO of Quantum Advisors. Subbu has over 25 years of experience in the India markets and has pretty much seen every market phase in India, including the Harshad Mehta scam, dot com crash, the 2008 crisis among others. In this conversation, Subbu talks about: * How got started in the markets * What exactly was the Harshad Mehta scam and what he personally learnt from it * What you shouldn't do in a bear market * Common behavioural mistakes investors make * How to build portfolios during such bear market phases * How to avoid value traps if you are a direct equity investor * His thoughts the underperformance of value style of investing * Importance of asset allocation * How he personally invests and a whole lot more. Please enjoy this conversation with Subbu.
Apr 27, 2020
Understanding what's happening in the debt markets with R Sivakumar
Whenever there is volatility, equity markets get all the attention. Bonds typically don't move around as much as equities and hence they seem boring to most people. Moreover, the Indian bond markets are extremely shallow and are dominated by institutions. But the bond markets send far more useful and actionable signals about companies and the economy at large are far more insightful than movements of stock prices and indices. And debt mutual funds, the most accessible products to retail investors are dominated by institutions and HNIs. And there are also a lot of misconceptions about the role of debt in portfolios. So, Prateek Singh (Founder of LearnApp) caught up with R Sivakumar, Head of Fixed Income at Axis Mutual Fund - THE best person to talk about all things debt and bond markets. In this conversation we talk about: * When happens in a bond market when the equity markets crash * A birdseye view of the Indian and global economy as COVID-19 spread through the globe * Factors that move bond prices * RBIs recent actions to provide liquidity * Why do you need debt in your portfolio * How not to choose debt funds * Gilt funds and their use and a whole lot more... Please enjoy this conversation with Sivakumar of Axis MF. Please let us know your feedback on @zerodhaonline on Twitter or on iTunes ratings.
Apr 18, 2020
The need for global diversification with Pratik Oswal
One of the most prevalent yet ignored biases among investors is called the home country bias - the tendency of investors to invest all or most of their money in the country they live in. To give you some context, India is just 2% of the world marketcap - meaning a vast majority of the investment opportunities lie outside India. And old economy stocks dominate the Indian indices. We don't have the Indian listed equivalent of Apple, Google, Netflix, Amazon, Facebook etc, the biggest and most innovative tech companies in the world. We've all been taught that we should diversify our portfolios across asset classes such as stocks, bonds, gold, real estate, etc. But In this wide-ranging conversation, Pratik Oswal, Head of Passive Funds at Motilal Oswal AMC talks to Prateek Singh (Founder of LearnApp) about: * What is global diversification and why it is needed * The opportunities and risks of global diversification * What does depreciation of rupee means and how it adds to returns * How to allocate to global funds in a portfolio * Comparing the S&P 500 and the Nasdaq 100 index funds And a whole lot more... Note: We had recorded this podcast with Pratik before Motilal Had received the approval for launching the Motilal Oswal S&P500 Index fund. We recorded an extended conversation specifically about the new fund from the 41: 50 mark. Please enjoy this conversation with Pratik Oswal of Motilal AMC. We've also launched a Zerodha Paathshala, a Hindi Podcast. You can check out the latest conversations here.
Apr 7, 2020
Investing through good and bad times with Kalpen Parekh
Since mid-February, there has been a sharp sell-off in the markets as the Corona Virus pandemic spreads through the globe. As we record this, Nifty 50 is down 25% while Nifty Mid-cap 100 and Nifty small-cap 100 indices are down by over 30% and 40% respectively. This is the sharpest fall in the markets since the 2008 financial crisis. And you might be worried about your investments. So, we decided to talk some really smart people who've seen various cycles in the Indian markets to bring you some perspective on what to do and what not to do. In this conversation, Prateek (Founder, LearnApp) talks to Kalpen Parekh, the President of DSP Mutual fund. Kalpen has over 2 decades of experience in the Indian markets. He was previously the Managing Director at IDFC Mutual Fund. He has also served in Birla Sun Life AMC and ICICI Prudential AMAC after beginning his career with L&T Finance. We had coincidentally spoken to Kalpen when there was some volatility in the markets last time, you can listen to the old episode here. Apologies for the poor audio quality. Given the work from home situation, there was a drop in the quality.
Dec 31, 2019
Should you invest in index funds? Getting passive with Pratik Oswal
Index investing (passive investing) has become increasingly popular in the last decade across the world. Trillions of dollars have flown out of active mutual funds into low-cost index funds. But in India, these are still early days for indexing, we just have about Rs 7700 crores in index funds. Although Rs 1.6 lakh crores is invested in index exchange traded funds (ETFs), most of it from the Employees' Provident Fund Organisation (EPFO) and retail investors predominantly invest in index mutual funds. In the past few years, there has been small by steadily increasing chatter about the merits of low-cost index funds in India. Given the growing underperformance of actively managed large-cap funds, there also seems to be a growing realization that low-cost index funds may be the best way to get large-cap exposure. In the last few months, Motilal Mutual Fund has launched a suite of index funds tracking the Nifty 50, Nifty Next 50, Nifty Midcap 150, and Nifty Smallcap 250, and Nifty 500 in…
Dec 12, 2019
Dhawal Dalal talks about the new Bharat Bond ETF and the Indian debt markets
The Bharat Bond ETF by Edelweiss Mutual Fund opens for subscription today. This exchange traded fund (ETF) holds AAA-rated bonds issued by public sector enterprises. The Bharat Bond ETF is unique in a lot of respects. In this wide-ranging conversation, Dhawal Dalal, Chief Investment Officer - Fixed Income of Edelweiss Mutual Fund talks to Prateek Singh (Founder of LearnApp) about: * Why the Indian corporate bond market is shallow * Reasons for the lack of retail participation in the debt markets * The role of debt in a portfolio and how to use debt instruments in a portfolio * And finally, explains in detail what the Bharat Bond ETF is, the structure and the risk & rewards of the ETF You can also check out this companion LearnApp video and this TradingQnA post for more details about the ETF. Click here, if you wish to invest in the Bharat Bond ETF. Please enjoy this conversation with Dhawal.
Aug 2, 2019
Should you invest in debt mutual funds?
Debt markets have suddenly become more action-packed than the equity markets. Ever since the IL&FS default, investors have slowly grown to realize that even debt carries its own risks. make no mistake, debt plays an important role in a portfolio. But it is imperative that you as an investor understand the various debt instruments and use them the right way. Arvind Chari is the Head of Fixed Income and Alternatives at Quantum Advisors. In this webinar, Arvind lays out the case to invest in debt and the core tents to follow when investing in debt funds. Arvind has over 14 years’ experience in Indian fixed income markets across dealing, research and portfolio management. Arvind joined Quantum in 2004 as Research Analyst – Fixed Income to build the fixed income and macro economy research function and also to help develop fixed income and other asset class products for Quantum Mutual Fund. He also helped set-up an offshore India Bond Fund amongst the first of its kind then. Arvind…
Jul 19, 2019
How to Invest for the long term across market cycles with Kalpen Parekh
These are unnerving times for investors with the markets being volatile. Long term investors should ideally embrace volatility, but we are seeing investors stop their investments. Volatile markets tend to induce investors to most often than not, make all the wrong choices. When markets undergo a period of under-performance, investors tend to stop their SIPs or worse yet redeem their investments. This during a time when they should do the exact opposite. As an Investor, you should embrace volatility because you get to average your investment at various price points. In this illuminating webinar, Kalpen Parekh (President, DSP Investment Managers) talks about: 1. The do's and don'ts of investing. 2. The recent under-performance of mid and small cap indices vs the Nifty 50 large-cap index. 3. How should you approach investments in mid and small-cap funds? 4. How Indian markets have performed over various market cycles and the parallels with the performance of the past 1-year. 5.…
Apr 12, 2019
Introduction to contra funds
Contra funds is a new and unique category that was carved out in the recent scheme reclassification by SEBI. By the very definition, these funds follow a contrarian investment approach and swim against the tide. These funds invest in stocks that are out of favor, special situations, and stocks that can turnaround. Taher Badshah is the Chief Investment Officer (Equities) at Invesco Mutual Fund. He also manages the Invesco India Contra Fund. In this webinar, he explains how a contra fund works, the investment process, and how to use these funds to build your portfolio.
Mar 30, 2019
Accrual management (Part 4)
In the 4th and final part of the video, Winston talks about accrual management i.e., how to generate returns by managing the yield to maturity (YTM) in your portfolio. When you buy a bond, you earn an assured interest (coupon), which will accrue in your portfolio. In this part, you will learn how you can maximize this. Winston covers concepts such as: * What drives the return of a bond * How to increase the returns in your portfolio * Different types of risks * What is an yield curve, how to interpret it, and the types of yield curves. Part 1: Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts Part 2: Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts Part 3: Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts
Mar 22, 2019
Introduction to bond Duration (Part 3)
In part 3 of the webinar, Winston talks about Duration. It is one of the most important factors when you are choosing a bond or a bond fund. Duration is a measure of a bond's sensitivity to changes in interest rates. In order to understand duration, you will also need to have a working knowledge of discounting future cash flows or time value of money. To learn about the time value of money, you can check out this Varsity module on this: http://bit.ly/2ECfBS1 In case you missed Here's: Part 1 - Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts Part 2 - Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts
Mar 15, 2019
Making money in bonds (Part 2)
In this part 2 of Bond Basics series, Winston talks about making money in bonds. He covers the basic concepts of a bond such as: * Coupon rate * Bond price * Yield * Yield to maturity (YTM) * MTM - mark to market pricing He also talks about: * The Bond Rule: Relationship between Interest rates and Bond prices. * Yield curve * Credit spreads Winston also discusses the various categories of debt funds, their characteristics and how you can use them in your portfolio. In case you missed Part 1, here are the links: Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts
Mar 8, 2019
Introduction to bonds (fixed income) - Part 1
The awareness about debt schemes in limited due to a variety of reasons. But having a fixed income or debt component in your portfolio is essential to building a diversified portfolio. In part 1 of the Series, Winston Noronha, Head of content and learning and development at IDFC mutual fund explains the basics of bonds, the various types of instruments, and sets the stage before diving deep into the complexities of fixed income. Just to set the context the bond market in India is still in its nascency. The corporate bond market today just accounts for 16% of the Indian GDP vs 73% in South Korea and 120% in the US. The bond market in India is dominated by government bonds. Even in mutual funds, institutions are the dominant investors with 54% of the AUM. Comparatively, 87% of assets in equity-oriented schemes are held by retail investors. Winston has a career spanning 25 years in financial services with a background in financial advisory, sales, and research. He has held i…
Mar 1, 2019
Best practices of value investing with Raamdeo Agrawal
Raamdeo Agrawal, co-founder of Motilal Oswal financial services is one of India's most prominent value investors. His annual wealth creation studies are a treasure trove of insights. In this conversations he talks about how he got started as an investor, his framework for value investing, his learnings from Warren buffet and more. He also talks about one of the most important aspects in value investing - recognizing the difference between price and value. This is a masterclass on all things investing. Enjoy the conversation.
Feb 22, 2019
Mahesh Patil on Indian macros and the recent market trends
Mahesh Patil is the Co-Chief Investment Officer of Aditya Birla Sun Life AMC and one of the biggest names in the fund management space. He leads a team of twenty, comprising fund managers and analysts, managing around INR 88,590 crores in equity assets. In this conversation with Karthik Rangappa, Mahesh talks about: 1. Overall macros of India and the factors that will influence growth 2. Earnings growth and corporate profits 3. The divergence between Nifty and Nifty small and mid-cap indices 4. The issue of pledged promoter holdings in mutual funds 5. Navigating quality and junk stocks 6. Passive investing and ETFs
Feb 16, 2019
Everything you need to know about Liquid Exchange Traded Funds (ETFs)
Having idle cash in your trading account is a bit of a conundrum. In this episode, Anil Ghelani Senior Vice President - DSP Mutual Fund explains how liquid ETFs work, the underlying securities, and how you can use a Liquid ETF for cash management and to plan your trades.
Feb 8, 2019
How to build a goal-oriented mutual fund portfolio
Most of us today invest without clear goals in mind. But the thing about setting goals for your investing is that it helps you quantify them. It also allows you to easily set expectations and choose the right instruments to achieve those goals. In this conversation Aashish P Somaiyaa, CEO of Motilal Oswal AMC explains how one should go about setting goals and invest to achieve them. Happy investing!
Feb 1, 2019
How to reduce the possibility of losses & volatility in equity portfolios
If you want equity returns, you must also stomach the associated volatility. We as investors cannot control market movement, interest rates, crude prices, and other factors. What we can however control is our behavior and how we construct our portfolios. In this conversation, Rajeev Thakkar, Chief Investment Officer (CIO) of PPFAS Mutual Fund talks about the things we can do do to manage the risk and volatility in our portfolios. If you have any questions about investing in mutual funds, you can post your questions here on Tradingqna. This webinar is part of our Zerodha Educate initiative.
Jan 25, 2019
Introduction to multi-cap mutual funds
Multi-cap mutual funds are a unique category because they have a flexible mandate to invest across market capitalizations. Meaning a single fund can invest across large, mid, and small-cap stocks. Given that not all stocks perform the same across market cycles, these funds are the perfect choice to build your core portfolio. In this conversation, Rajat Jain, chief investment officer of Principal Asset Management, explains how multi-cap mutual funds work and how you can use these funds to build your portfolio. If you have any questions about investing in mutual funds, you can post your questions here on Tradingqna. This webinar is part of our Zerodha Educate initiative.
Jan 18, 2019
International diversification with mutual funds
India today accounts for just under 4% of the global stock market capitalization. This means that over 95% of the investable opportunities lie outside India. A vast majority of the investors today invest within the borders of a country, this is called as "Home country bias". But, there is a case to made for diversifying geographically. In this conversation, Neil Parikh, Chairman and CEO of PPFAS Mutual Fund explains why you should diversify internationally. Here's the link to the original video if you wish to check out the presentation. Do you have any question about investing in international mutual funds? Post them here on Tradingqna.
Jan 13, 2019
Investment opportunities in debt mutual funds
Mutual funds don't just mean equity funds. Debt mutual funds (fixed income) today account for over 50% of total mutual funds AUM but it is largely dominated by institutions. In order to build a diversified portfolio, having a debt component in your portfolio is very important. Debt is largely uncorrelated to equity and tends to zag when equity zigs, thereby proving downside protection. However, debt funds as a category isn't properly understood by retail investors. In this episode, Rajesh Iyer, the former CEO of DHFL Pramerica Mutual Fund, explains the various categories of debt funds, their characteristics, and how to use them to build a diversified portfolio. If you wish to check out the presentation, used in this webinar, you can watch the video here. This webinars is part of our Zerodha Educate initiative.
Jan 5, 2019
Jack Schwager in conversation with Nithin Kamath
Jack Schwager, the author of the critically acclaimed Market Wizards series and the Co-founder of Fundseeder, talks to Nithin about his evolution as a trader, and his trading style and his views on fundamental analysis, technical analysis, and risk management. Click here http://bit.ly/jackschwager for the transcript of the interview published on Moneycontrol.
1 hr 3 min
Jan 5, 2019
The right investment strategy in volatile markets
In this episode, Raghav Iyengar, CEO of Indiabulls Asset Management talks about the do's and don'ts of investing in volatile markets.
Jan 4, 2019
Introduction to tax-saving mutual funds (ELSS)
Tax-saving mutual funds (ELSS) are one of the best avenues to invest for long term with tax benefits. In this episode we speak to Jinesh Gopani, Head of Equities at Axis MF and the fund manager of Axis Long Term Equity Fund about the basics of Equity Linked Saving Schemes (ELSS) and what makes them an attractive investment option.