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Future Law Podcast
Future Law Podcast
This podcast cuts through the noise surrounding the future of law. The world, its people and their technologies are accelerating at a rapid rate. Can the legal profession keep up with all the changes?
1 day ago
Ep. 30.0 - Christophe Roquilly, Director of the Augmented Law Institute at EDHEC
"Future Law" is a global phenomenon with multiple local applications. What's different about the French experience, and what does the French experience share with the future of law elsewhere? The EDHEC Business School in Lille is the home of the new Augmented Law Institute, a purposeful blending of training in law, business, and technology that builds on EDHEC's long-standing investment in multi-purpose professional preparation. In this episode of the Future Law Podcast, Mike Madison interviews Christophe Roquilly, the Director of the Augmented Law Institute and the architect of EHDEC's law-plus-business programming. Links: The Augmented Law Institute at EDHEC Business School Professor Christophe Roquilly See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Feb 15, 2021
Ep. 29.0 - Ed Walters, Co-Founder and CEO of Fastcase
Fastcase is now 20 years in to its mission to transform legal publishing and access to legal information. Fastcase co-founder and CEO Ed Walters joins Mike Madison to talk about the origins of the company (beer and softball contributed, along with a research challenge from an unexpected source), the journey to date, and visions and implications of the future of law. Links: Ed Walters Fastcase See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Feb 1, 2021
Ep. 28.0 - LegalTech in London: Giles Thompson and Amy Conroy of Avvoka
Our tour of LegalTech takes The Future Law Podcast to London and this conversation with Giles Thompson and Amy Conroy. Giles and Amy are two early-career lawyers who stepped quickly off the path to a conventional law practice career and, in very different respects, onto the team at Avvoka, which offers a document automation platform. Mike Madison talks with Giles and Amy about what Avvoka is up to, how that fits in the evolving LegalTech landscape, and how each of them came to be where they are today. Links: Avvoka Giles Thompson Amy Conroy See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Jan 15, 2021
Ep. 27.0 - Marlene van Nelson, Solo Practitioner in a Tech Era
In this episode of the Future Law Podcast, Mike Madison talks with Marlene van Nelson, a recent law graduate who followed a classic path: she hung out a proverbial shingle and launched a solo practice. A few short but fast-paced years later, she's expanded her practice and found her niche, delivering "people law" services to small business and individual clients while nimbly blending the personal with the technological. Marlene tells her own story, from her dream of becoming a lawyer, to the detours along the way, to her current firm: Trellis Legal. All about Trellis Legal. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Jan 3, 2021
Ep. 26.0 - Lisa Leong, Innovating and Collaborating During the Pandemic
How do you build and re-build collaborative and innovative cultures in a virtual environment? The future of law isn't all face-to-face. In this reunion episode, original Future Law Podcast host Lisa Leong returns to talk with Mike Madison about pivoting her broadcasting and consulting practices in response to COVID shutdowns, what practicing lawyers and law teachers can borrow from her experience, and about shifting mindsets from "me" to "we." Links and references: Lisa Leong at LinkedIn Robert Putnam, "The Upswing" Otto Scharmer and Presencing See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Dec 15, 2020
Ep. 25.0 - Dan Linna, Teaching at the Intersections of Law Practice and Technology
Daniel W. Linna, Jr. is Senior Lecturer and Director of Law and Technology Initiatives at Northwestern University's Pritzker School of Law, with an additional appointment in Northwestern University's McCormick School of Engineering. He's also a former litigation partner in a large law firm in Detroit. He joined Mike Madison for an energetic conversation about legal system innovation and change, what law schools and law firms are doing right and wrong today, and about the need to ground innovation on all sides in evidence. Dan Linna at Northwestern Law. Dan hosts the LegalTech Lever blog. And he has his own podcast, Law Technology Now. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Dec 1, 2020
Ep. 24.0 - Michele DeStefano, Leader of Law Without Walls
Michele DeStefano is the founder and leader of Law Without Walls, or LWOW, a pioneering program for team- and project-based legal education that gathers students and partners from around the world. She is a full-time professor of law at the University of Miami who has also documented her methods and published research on their effectiveness. Mike Madison talks with Michele about the origins and impacts of LWOW. Michele DeStefano's biography at the University of Miami. The Law Without Walls website. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Nov 18, 2020
Ep. 23.0 - Cat Moon, Law Professor Making Law Better
Cat Moon leads the Program on Law and Innovation (PoLI) at Vanderbilt University's law school, a role that she took on after practicing law for nearly 20 years in Nashville, Tennessee. At PoLI and beyond, for the last several years she has become a passionate voice for making lawyers - and law - better. Mike Madison talks with Cat about PoLI, her vision for future lawyers, and her work helping to build and promote the Delta Model for lawyer competence. Cat Moon's biography at Vanderbilt Law. The Program on Law and Innovation at Vanderbilt. The Delta Model. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Nov 1, 2020
Ep 22.0 - Thomas Aertgeerts, CEO and Co-Founder of European LegalTech startup Aeco
Thomas Aertgeerts is the co-founder and CEO of a Belgium-based LegalTech startup offering tax law services today and on a mission to transform the legal industry tomorrow. He talks with Mike Madison about the legal entrepreneur's life, transitioning out of a classic law practice career, and the future of legal services. He is the author of a provocative essay in the American Bar Association (ABA) Journal in April 2020 titled, "Is my law firm preparing me for success in the next decade?" His company, Aeco, can be found here. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Oct 15, 2020
Ep. 21.0 - Lizzy Shackelford, Lawyer, Diplomat, and Author
Elizabeth "Lizzy" Shackelford took her law degree and followed her dream to serve internationally, eventually spending more than seven years with the US Department of State in a series of posts in Eastern Europe and in Africa. Now retired from her diplomatic service and the author of a recent book on US foreign policy and diplomacy, in this podcast she reflects with Mike Madison on what it means to be a lawyer in a rapidly-evolving world. Link to the book: Elizabeth Shackelford, The Dissent Channel: American Diplomacy in a Dishonest Age (PublicAffairs, 2020) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Oct 1, 2020
Ep 20.0 - Tom Dreyfus, CEO and Co-Founder of Josef, an Australian LegalTech Startup
Dean Dan Hunter chats with Tom Dreyfus, CEO and co-founder of the Melbourne-based legal technology firm Josef. Josef gives both practitioners and law students a leg up in creating bots - automated processes for legal analysis - without expecting lawyers to know how to code and without expecting that legal experts should be cut out of the professional loop. Dan and Tom talk about Tom's path to leadership: a law degree, followed by an early career in law practice, and then the world of entrepreneurship in robotics and legaltech - all without a computer science background. Find Josef here. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Sep 14, 2020
Ep 19.0 - Miguel Willis, Founder of the Access to Justice Technology Fellows Program
Miguel Willis caught the innovation and entrepreneurship bug early in his law school career, and he exited with a JD and leadership of an innovative program that blends technology skills, design, law, and the public interest. The Access to Justice Technology Fellows program connects law students with civil justice organizations for an immersive, 10-week, paid project-based fellowship experience, changing lives in the community and priming the students for careers as 21st century lawyers. Mike Madison caught up with Miguel for this podcast. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Sep 1, 2020
Ep 18.0 - Duc Trang on Competition and Change in the Legal Services Marketplace
Duc Trang, former private practitioner, general counsel, and now Managing Director of Major, Lindsey & Africa Transform Advisory Services, talks with Mike Madison about the changing marketplace for legal services and legal professionals and what those changes mean for private firms, for legal technology development, and for legal education. Also featured in this episode: Michael Madison, The Shapes and Letters of the Modern Lawyer (August 3, 2020). See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Aug 15, 2020
Ep 17.0 - A Recent Graduate on Technology and Innovation in Law: Eric DeChant
Eric DeChant isn't a lawyer. He's a recent graduate of the novel Master of Science in Law program at Northwestern University's Pritzker School of Law, which aims to give STEM professionals (like Eric) enough grounding in law to accelerate them into careers as allied legal professionals but not so much that they qualify to become licensed lawyers. Mike Madison interviews Eric to hear how he found the Northwestern program, what he thought of his time in school, and his plans for a future in law - though not as a lawyer. Here is the background to Eric DeChant's story, from Legal Evolution. Eric has started a voluntary organization titled the American Society of Legal Engineers. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Aug 1, 2020
Ep 16.0 - Dean Dan Rodriguez on Challenges and Opportunities in Legal Education
Dan Rodriguez, formerly Dean of Northwestern Law and president of the Association of American Law Schools, gets inside the future of legal education for the benefit of legal professionals and new law graduates. The interview is hosted by Mike Madison. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Jul 15, 2020
Ep 15.0 - Building a LegalTech Startup with Kevin Miller, CEO of LegalSifter
Mike Madison sits down with Kevin Miller, CEO of the Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania-based LegalTech firm LegalSifter. LegalSifter is powered by tech developed in Pittsburgh's AI and robotics ecology, centered on Carnegie Mellon University. A seasoned lawyer-entrepreneur, Kevin shares his thoughts about what lawyers and law firms are doing well, and what they can do better with AI-powered tools. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Jul 1, 2020
Interview 13.3 - Legal Innovation and the Client Experience with Carl White, CEO of CX In Law
Dan Hunter talks legal innovation and the future of law practice from the client's perspective with Carl White, founder and now Director and Chief Experience Officer with CXINLAW. CXINLAW partners with law firms in Australasia and the UK for training and education on excellence in client service. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Jun 15, 2020
Ep 14.0 - A Legal Education Call to Action with Trish White and Andrea Sinner of the ABA Commission on the Future of Legal Ed
Mike Madison talks with Dean Trish White and Andrea Sinner, the chair and director of the American Bar Association Commission on the Future of Legal Education. The Commission wrapped up two years' worth of work in March 2020 and published a report that reads more like a manifesto for change than a conventionally sober reflection. Find the ABA Commission Report online here. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Dec 15, 2019
Interview 13.2 - Legal Innovation and Design Thinking by Students Working with DWF Connected Services
Dan Hunter chats with University of Manchester students, Cian Heeley, Mandeep Hayer and Wunmi Akanji who were lucky enough to spend two weeks working with the geniuses at DWF on a legal design/innovation project with a very well-known sporting club in Manchester. Inspiring insights into the way that this sort of program changes how students think about the possibilities of law. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Dec 8, 2019
Interview 13.1 - Margaret Hagan, Director Of The Legal Design Lab At Stanford University
Margaret Hagan, a global leader in bringing design to legal education and law practice, talks with Michael Madison about what design is and why design matters, supplying some of her own back story along the way. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Nov 30, 2019
Ep 13.0 - Design Thinking
In this, our last episode for 2019, we finally bring you our long-promised episode on Design Thinking in Law. The terrible trio talks around some spots from three guests, Margaret Hagan, Director of the Legal Design Lab at Stanford Law School; Carl White, CEO of CX in Law; and Cian Heely, a grad from Manchester University who worked with the amazing gang at DWF to solve for a client's problem. We use these spots as a jumping off point for a wider chat about what design thinking in law looks like. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Nov 17, 2019
Interview 12.3 - Professor Lesley Hitchens, Dean of UTS Law School
Dean Dan has been chatting with a lot of deans of late, and in this interview he talks with Dean Lesley Hitchens of the University of Technology, Sydney. In 2018 Professor Hitchens received the Financial Times Australian Legal Innovator Award, and her law school has pioneered a Legal Futures and Technology major. Listen as we chat about the kind of skills, knowledge, and attributes that law grads need to future-proof themselves. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Nov 10, 2019
Interview 12.2 - Professor George Williams AO, Dean of UNSW Law School
In this interview, we chat with Prof George Williams AO, dean of UNSW Law School. George has thought a great deal about what the future of law should look like, and when he took over the law school he conducted a listening tour with a huge range of stakeholders of his school. We talked with him about the challenges facing legal education, and how one of the most prestigious schools in the country is addressing the opportunities ahead. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Nov 3, 2019
Interview 12.1 - Professor Nick James, Dean of Bond Law School
“The name’s Bond, Professor Nick James from Bond.” Seriously, I can’t tell you how long I’ve waited to use that joke. In this interview, Dan (that’s me) interviews Nick James, the dean of Bond Law. We chat about his take on the future of legal education in Australia, and what Bond are doing to push the boundaries. Nick is an amazing scholar and teacher, and Bond has the best ratings in the country for student engagement and satisfaction with teaching. Nick talks about how the future looks from this kind of perspective. Join the conversation, why don’t you? See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Oct 31, 2019
Ep 12.0 - The Future Of Legal Education In Australia
After diagnosing the state of US legal education a few months ago, in this episode the terrific trio talk about the nature of Australian law schools and discuss some of the challenges that they face in the years to come. With insights from guests Prof George Williams AO (UNSW), Prof Nick James (Bond) and Prof Lesley Hitchens (UTS), this is the first podcast from Dan in his new role of Executive Dean at QUT, and is sure to be a classic. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Oct 20, 2019
Interview 11.2 - Michelle Mahoney - Head of Innovation at King & Wood Mallesons.
In this interview, the last of our investigations of how law firms are becoming tech firms, Dan Hunter talks with Michelle Mahoney, the head of innovation at King & Wood Mallesons. She discusses the layered approach to technology and innovation that this elite, multinational firm provides, and divides up the task into four useful categories. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Oct 13, 2019
Interview 11.1 - Deepak Pillai - Data Analyst for Clayton Utz
In this interview, we chat with Deepak Pillai, a data analyst who works at the blue chip Australian law firm Clayton Utz. The firm took the unusual step of building a separate data analytics practice to complement its traditional legal practice. Deepak talks about why law firms might do this, how their clients respond to this type of offering, and how a data scientist from a social media marketing background came to be up close and personal with a bunch of lawyers. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Oct 6, 2019
Interview 11.3 - Jonathan Patterson, Managing Director & Head of Development of DWF Ventures
In this interview, Dean Dan chats with Jonathan Patterson, the Managing Director & Head of Development of DWF Ventures in Manchester, England. DWF is a fascinating example of a law firm that has embraced managed legal operations, legaltech, and design thinking. The firm's incredibly successful listing this year on the London Stock Exchange was driven in large part by its ability to rethink how legal services are delivered, and we explore some of the ways in which DWF is how a tech firm. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Sep 30, 2019
Ep 11.0 - Every Law Firm Is a Tech Firm
In this episode we talk about the way that law firms have responded to the new technology world in different ways. This episode’s title comes from an observation we heard from the CEO of a legaltech firm who said that “every law firm is a tech firm.” What he meant was that every firm has an IT department, which isn’t that interesting a thought. But we realized that lots of firms do technology in interesting ways, and we wanted to explore these as lessons for everyone. We feature three different sorts of law firms, King & Wood Mallesons which has a dedicated innovation director, Clyton Utz which runs a big data analytics group, and DWF which listed recently on the London Big Board and which uses a range of fascinating legaltech and design approaches. Join us, won't you, as we discuss how every law firm is a tech firm. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Sep 22, 2019
Interview 10.3 - Lisa Damon and Stephen Poor from Seyfarth Shaw
Lisa Damon and Stephen Poor, innovators and leaders at the global law firm Seyfarth Shaw, talk with Mike Madison and Dean Dan Hunter about developing Seyfarth Lean, the name the firm gives to its widely-recognized applied innovation strategies: data-driven process improvements, project management techniques, and legal technology R&D that have changed the firm's DNA. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Sep 15, 2019
Interview 10.2 - Simon Quirk
In this interview, Dean Dan chats with his friend Simon Quirk, recovering lawyer, professional services consultant, and long-time serial entrepreneur. The discussion ranges over the nature of legal practice, how to do innovation in law firms, and what we should think about the new point solutions in legal tech and regtech. Join us, won't you? See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Sep 8, 2019
Interview 10.1 - Richard Hsu
Lisa Leong and her business partner, Tristan Forrester, escape Melbourne and travel to San Francisco, to record this special Future Law Podcast bonus episode. They track down Richard Hsu - the Managing Director of the Partner Practice Group of recruitment firm Major Lindsey & Africa. Richard is the host and producer of an ABA award winning podcast HsuUntied - and author of the LMA award winning blog HsuTube. Oh, and he was a lawyer! (Amongst other legal roles, he was an IP partner at Shearman & Stirling). Richard spoke about creativity, being trained as an Engineer - and how his HsuTube offering came to be... See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Aug 31, 2019
Ep 10.0 - Where Have All The Lawyers Gone?
Lisa Leong, Dean Dan Hunter, and Mike Madison take apart the challenges of modern law practice: clients increasingly want multi-functional capabilities from their lawyers and firms. The profession is full of talk of "T-shaped" lawyers, who combine deep legal knowledge and broad business and organizational skills. How can firms find, train, and keep these "T-shaped" professionals happy and productive? How can T-shaped lawyers find success in law firms, or beyond? See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Aug 18, 2019
Interview 9.1 - Deborah Merritt, Professor at the Ohio State University
Professor Deborah Merritt of the Moritz College of Law at Ohio State University talks with Dan Hunter and Mike Madison about the sources of critical challenge in US law schools today and describes paths to re-invention, including a new focus on clients, for herself, for current students, and for law faculties. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Aug 11, 2019
Interview 9.2 - Michele Pistone
Professor Michele Pistone from the Charles Widger School of Law at Villanova University in Philadelphia talks with Dan Hunter and Mike Madison about disruption in law practice and legal education, about change management in higher education, and about working across the university to build new, cross-disciplinary training for law. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Aug 4, 2019
Interview 9.1 - Mark Tushnet
Professor Mark Tushnet of Harvard Law School is our guest. Professor Tushnet talks with Dan Hunter about the changes that he's seen in US legal education over his long and illustrious career, and offers some suggestions regarding how US law schools need to change to respond to the challenges ahead. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Jul 31, 2019
Ep 9.0 - The Future of Legal Education in the US
US law schools today face a double shot of post-2008 challenges. They face changing demand for legal services and legal education, plus changing demographics of prospective students. Law faculty are just now starting to accept that those factors point to large scale disruption of the traditional law school. Lisa, Dan, and Mike take an inventory of how US law schools got where they are, look at the likely shape of change to come, and - as always - deliver some practical take-aways. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Jul 14, 2019
Interview 8.1 - Dean Gordon Smith
Dan and Mike talk with Gordon Smith, Dean of the J. Reuben Clark Law School at Brigham Young University (BYU) about emerging challenges and opportunities for US law schools. Gordon's research and teaching background is in business law and entrepreneurship. In this interview, he talks about bringing his expertise to bear on innovation and entrepreneurship inside a law school. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Jun 30, 2019
Ep 8.0 - Innovation on The Cheap
Lisa Leong, Dean Dan, and Mike Madison take a tour through strategies for initiating innovation and change, for people who don't have "innovating" in their professional portfolios - and who may not have budgets. They have case studies to share, from their own experiences in law firms, companies, and law schools. Anyone can put themselves in a position to innovate. Here's how to get started. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Jun 14, 2019
Interview 7.1 - Ray Worthy Campbell
Dean Dan talks with Professor Ray Campbell, from Peking University-School of Transnational Law in Shenzhen, China. Before becoming a law professor, Ray clerked for U.S. Chief Justice Warren Burger of the United States Supreme Court, and was a partner in the multinational law firms of Kirkland & Ellis and Jenner & Block. Listen to his fascinating take on the future of law and the future of legal education in a globalised world. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
May 31, 2019
Ep 7.0 - The End of Law Schools
Dean Dan and Mike Madison talk about whether the future has caught up with law schools. They catch up with Professor Ray Campbell, from Peking University-School of Transnational Law in Shenzhen, China, who suggests that the future of legal education doesn't look like the way that we've always done things... See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
May 14, 2019
Interview 6.1 - Professor Dan Klein aka Dan the Improv Man
Lisa Leong and her business partner Tristan Forrester spent some time hanging out with the delightful Professor Dan Klein from Stanford University. In this full interview, you will learn: - how to think like an Improviser and why it is important for cultivating an innovation mindset - how improv can encourage lawyer creativity - a few simple improv games like sound ball, and word-at-a-time proverb. How do you encourage creativity in your organisation? Let us know at http://thefuturelawpodcast.com/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Apr 30, 2019
Ep 6.0 - How Improv Unlocks Innovation
Lisa Leong introduces us to her friend Professor Dan Klein from Stanford University aka "Dan the Improv Man". In this episode our three co-hosts, Dean Dan, Lethal Lisa and Most Interesting Mike explore how improvisation exercises can help lawyers develop an innovation mindset. Have you tried using improv to unlock lawyer creativity? Add to the conversation at http://thefuturelawpodcast.com/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Apr 14, 2019
Interview 5.1 - Mick Sheehy
Mick Sheehy is a partner at PWC and was formerly a general council at Telstra. He is the founder of CLOC in Australia and joins Dan Hunter to talk about legal ops, managed services, and why law firms should be worried about how the Big 4 are moving into NewLaw. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Feb 28, 2019
Ep 4.0 - Our (Radical) Predictions For 2028
Our three brave co-hosts go "on tape" to predict what the legal industry will look like in 2028 (ten years from now). Dean Dan, Lethal Lisa and Most Interesting Mike cover law firms, lawyers and law schools. Nothing is safe. Platform plays and multi-disciplinary practices are also covered. Agree or agree to disagree - please add to the conversation on the website: http://thefuturelawpodcast.com/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Jan 31, 2019
Ep 3.0 - Dean Dan Was Into AI Before It Was Cool
In this episode, Lisa Leong, Mike Madison and Dan Hunter unpack "Artificial Intelligence" in the context of law. Prof Dan was on the public speaking circuit in the 90s banging on about AI - but in those days, no one was listening! He was so into AI that he would have dated Siri if she had existed in the 90s. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Jan 31, 2019
Ep 2.0 - The Most Interesting American (to us)
Introducing our third co-host, Prof Mike Madison from the University of Pittsburgh Law School - who is no ordinary law professor. Mike has been 'stockpiling' legal education reformers for over a decade. Mike gives us a brief overview of US-style legal education. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Jan 31, 2019
Ep 1.0 - Why This Podcast? Beyond Innovation Theatre
Introducing Lisa Leong, the diminutive disruptor, and Prof Dan Hunter, Dean of Swinburne Law School. Lisa reminisces about how they met - and then they chat about what this podcast is about, who it is for and why we started it. This episode explores Experience Design - and why, to them, innovation is not just "about the technology". See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Dec 18, 2018
Ep 5.0 - The Rise of Legal Ops and Platform Plays
Dean Dan has broken out of our ivory tower and gone to speak with a third party! Mick Sheehy was formerly a GC at Telstra - and is now a Partner of New Law @ PwC. We speak about CLOC, Legal Operations and Tech Platforms. If you don't know what any of these terms mean - please listen! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.