A Rational Fear
A Rational Fear
May 15, 2022
Julia Zemiro Asks 'Who Cares?' — E5 — Penny Ackery (Hume indy Candidate)
Play • 36 min

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G'day Fearmongers,

This is the 2nd last JZAC — and it's a good one. JZ has a conversation with Independent Candidate for Hume, Penny Ackery.

There is a feeling of change in country NSW.

Penny Ackery is a former special needs teacher who has been tasked by her community to represent the huge electorate of Hume.

At 17 240 sq km it spans from Boorowa in the west to Appin in the east, with Goulburn smack bang in the middle. It's currently held by the Minister for Emission Expansion, Angus Taylor. One of the most powerful ministers in the government.

But Penny has been hard at it, campaigning publicly since June 2021 — traveling the breadth of the electorate, listening, and consulting with folks about how to better represent them. It's the world's longest job interview.

JZ lives in the electorate next door and has been supporting Penny Ackery in her campaign, so if this chat  sounds like two friends who are trying to make change in their communities — it's because it is.




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Bertha Announcement  0:00  
This podcast is supported in part by the Bertha Foundation. 

Julia Zemiro  0:04  
Hi, Julia Zemiro here, I'm recording this podcast on the land of the Gundam gara people. Sovereignty was never ceded. We need a treaty. Let's start the podcast.

Dan Ilic  0:13  
A podcast about politics for people who hate politics. This is Julian Zemiro asks, Who cares?

Julia Zemiro  0:24  
On this second to last podcast I'm doing with the irrational fie organization, how I love them. I wanted to speak with an independent, no matter how you look at it. One big part of Australia's 2022 election will have been the independence no matter what the result is, and I wanted to speak to one close to home Penny Ackery is an independent running in the federal electorate of Hume in New South Wales. And for the last nine years, it's been held by Angus Taylor, Minister for energy and emissions reduction, or is he anyway, Hume is enormous. I live in Whitlam, which is right next door, and it stretches from Warragamba. We're Alicia Camden and loving them in the north, down through Wollondilly, winter, Caribee, and golden, which is where Penny lives to borrow, gunning and Crookwell in the southwest. penny spent 30 years of her life in this electorate. Her most recent job has been as a teacher for kids with special needs. And she has been a teacher at Golden and picked in high schools. And during the pandemic, she was an advocate for small businesses across the electorate, showcasing what they were doing, just helping them to kind of keep alive. And I thought it was interesting to talk to an independent I've been a bit involved with independence, doing some launches, doing some webinars on Zoom, etc. Because I was fascinated by it. And I wanted to find out what it was all about why people were doing it, were people really stepping up and they absolutely were. And I think it's going to be a very interesting chapter in Australian politics, and it will be interesting to see where it goes. In the future. It feels like a circuit breaker for me. And I reckon a circuit breaker is not a bad idea. I wanted to speak to Penny about why she stepped up to run as an independent what the process was like, and what it's like in there now with a few days to go to the election day. Welcome, Penny, how you going?

Penny Ackery  2:24  
I'm tired. I'm getting to the exhaustion stakes. It's been a pretty exciting journey. It's I've met so many great people. I've had a great time actually in reality, so I'm doing pretty well. I'm just getting pretty tired and a bit of exhaustion setting in

Julia Zemiro  2:40  
I had a little flashback to the launch your launch. As a matter of just explaining why I'm interested in the independent movement in general. I like the way it's made people wake up a little bit to the fact that whether you like it or not, whether you think you should vote or not. There is someone in Canberra that represents your electorate and your life. And if you don't find out a bit about those people, then how can you make informed decisions when you vote, but I was excited by having read Kathy McGowan's book I was excited about people getting involved and getting enthusiastic about something that doesn't usually enthuse it make them enthusiastic, which is politics. And I almost feel like saying politics isn't even the word for it. It's just how we live. It's how we want to run our lives. It's it includes family and includes education includes all the things that we need to make a good society. But with your launch, I remember we had two options. We might be outside if it didn't rain, and then there was rain. And so we ended up in this fabulous basketball court in Golden 350 people were there. It was very exciting. You were so impressive. Penny, you just came out of that gate. How do you feel you've changed from that day of seeing all those people eagerly wanting to listen, they weren't all on board, yet. They were still figuring out what was going on to now.

Penny Ackery  4:05  
I think I've just got better at being a performer. But I think what it is, is I think more confident in the message that I'm giving and more confident in putting out what we believe in and talking to people about what they want, and asking them the right questions. So as I go from gathering to gathering, I've sort of perfected a little bit or polished what I say to people, but what I've also found is that so many questions are asked and so many questions out of left field, they think oh, I didn't think about that one. But what's been really good is I've been informed a lot more about the local issues about what people care about on a national board. And I've been able to get their views as well and meld them into what I know that the electorate wants. So how in a way I've more developed rather than actually change because of the excitement that that was in there. at basketball stadium was palpable. And every time I go somewhere, it's the same feeling. Even if it's only six people, I went to Penrose Association Hall just last Tuesday, and had all these people, they're really keen to support me, but wanting to listen and to discuss. So I haven't been telling them. I've been discussing with what it is they want, how they feel about things or going, getting some ideas, learning new things. I think it's a two way conversation that's been really, really important.

Julia Zemiro  5:31  
Now, I'm in the Whitlam electorate, which is right next door to the human electorate, which is the area that you're running for Hume is enormous. Are you finding that there are some some common themes that you're hearing from everyone?

Penny Ackery  5:44  
Yes. And the first one I'm usually greeted with is we need to change, we have to find a way to do our democracy better, we have to make things different. And the number of people I've met that have come out and said, Gosh, I would never ever come to something like this, I would never organize something like this, you know, like, I really feel strongly that we need to get a better option. And that's, that really stuns me. Like I knew there was a little group around me that pretty keen, you know, politically aware, and so on. But there's an awful lot of people either side of the political spectrum, that are saying it's not working, this two party systems are very well, but it's breaking down, we're not getting what we need these days. And I'm going to come out, and I'm going to sort of help, I'm going to wave the banner, and I'm going to support you, because you're the middle option, you're the centrist, you're the one that will listen the out there and help make a change. So that has been the connecting thing or up climate change, or I like to talk more about a renewable energy economy, protecting the environment, climate change is a real red flag. And I like to move right away from that. Because when I say to people who don't believe in climate change, when I say well, what about our water, we need to protect it and make sure it's clean? And what about our air and what we're putting into the air. And everybody's on board with that everybody wants fresh water and clean air and food? That's good. So I think talking about that is far more productive. And then it lets us go straight on to what can we do to make it better, which is to rewire Australia, to really think about how we farming, all of those issues. And especially it doesn't matter where you go, but particularly with farmers, that's more meaningful than saying, Oh, you have to sort of take action against climate change, or what is the action. And I find people are talking to me, not just about that sort of thing. But saying, Well, it's great to have all these announcements and to say, Oh, we've got to do this, we got to do that. But so Ghana, Ghana, Ghana, it's not a let's do it. And this is what we're gonna do. And this is step one. And that's what I like to talk about, we know that we can rewire Australia, we know that we have the renewables with our business counselors already said, Yes, we need a better target. And we got to move. We've even seen a lot of our coal mining plants start looking at what we need to start looking at, we will have to shut down how can we transition? And what else can our product be? Oh, we can do renewables. I think that's a, I think that's coming. And I think people are really recognizing that a lot more. So we do talk about how we can improve our environment and how we can have renewable energy is up and down the electric, when we

Julia Zemiro  8:20  
did the launch, Cathy McGowan, I think drove herself down from Victoria to attend, because that's how that's how passionate she feels about knowing full well, that one person can make a difference and change things. And she, of course, was the member for in die and had a lot of did a lot of great work for her electorate there. But what struck me on the day is that, you know, she looked at that group of 350 people and was sort of saying, you may not think that Penny knows how to be a politician yet, because she said, I didn't know I was green when I got in there. But as soon as she got in there, she realized that she did have a voice as an independent, rather than being an opposition where she was fighting for things all the time, and how fast she learnt. And I think what strikes me is that when you look at all the mainly women standing for being an independent, I find you all incredibly overqualified for the job of what I've seen men in suits do now for for 10 years. I just think when I look at you, Penny, you've worked as a teacher, as a teacher special needs, you've been doing it for a very long time, the skills that go into the patience, the focus, the empathy, they're all things that people keep saying I'm missing in, in politics, and I never understood why that would be the place where that should be missing.

Penny Ackery  9:49  
Yeah, that's right. And I mean, the other one we can add to there is action and having a plan and actually getting to the end of it. And then if the plan doesn't work, changing it because as I said, I often say As a teacher, like, you know, you have kids, and you've got to teach them a concept. So, you know, you plan it out halfway through then jumping out the window. So you think, Oh, hang on, it's not working, I think I'd better do something different. So you change it straightaway. You don't wait till the end of the lesson. When it's all chaos, you do it straight away. And then you get a good outcome you don't have you know, that's that action. And that's changing what's not working. And one of the things that other people talk to me about as well is that if we're going on the wrong track, and we can see that, why do we keep doing it, like it's not going to make it better? We need to stop, evaluate and change track. And yes, it might look embarrassing, who cares if we get about an outcome. And so that's another thing people are talking about not just talking about things, but actually getting the action happening. And if it's not working the way it should look at it, and change it and do it when it's happened going wrong, not later on. So we can think of a whole lot of things even over the pandemic, things seem to be going well. And then there was a bit of a disaster. And in some cases, we just kept doing the same thing. And it didn't get better. So I think it's those sorts of skills that most people have in life, but we seem to have lost them in that political sphere, for whatever reason,

Julia Zemiro  11:11  
for whatever reason, who knows? Well, I would say, for whatever reason, you know, the other thing, too, is that, as independents who are coming into politics, not from the usual route, you've got nothing to lose, and everything to gain by saying, Well, I want to do this because I want to serve you. Whereas it's clear that the system in there now many people, many of them have gotten in there, because it was something that was said to them at high school that they will possibly be perfect for one day, which is to be Prime Minister or to be treasurer or to. And when that dawned on me, it was it was a revelation, because I thought But hang on, I still haven't chosen you. I still haven't chosen you to be in charge of that party, I still haven't chosen you, I will have to kind of cross my fingers and hope you'll do the right thing. So if anything on the 21st on Saturday night, the shake up is something I'm interested in, because you know a lot of people saying oh, we can't shake things up. We don't want it to be chaotic or crazy. Well, firstly, a hung parliament isn't crazy. It's a balanced Parliament as far as I'm concerned. But secondly, we need something to change. It's not you're saying when you're when you're teaching and working with a group of 30 kids, and you've got that lesson plan, and it's not working. Of course, you have to turn it and and work with what's there. And that's, that's such a skill. I think that is such a skill.

Penny Ackery  12:32  
Yes. And I think that, like you say that's what lack is lacking at the moment. And I'm in the position I am because I was passionate about getting some change. And I was selected from a group of four other people to be in this position by a whole couple of 100 people. And so I really don't have anything to lose, like, at the moment, I've got a garden out there that is so full of weeds. You know, and I've got a house that needs finishing. And I've got people that I haven't seen for a long time, I've got plenty of things I could do with my life. But so I've got nothing to lose if I if I am gonna win, but just in case I don't, I have another life to go to. It's not like I'm oh my gosh, I'm not the Prime Minister, I'm not in Parliament, oh, that was my dream. This is not my dream, this is what I need to do. Because I've been selected to do it by the community. And we are working as hard as we can to get there. Because it's going to make life better. It's going to make our democracy better. But it's not something that I chose to do. I've got other things I can do in my life. But I'm choosing to do this because people have chosen me to do it.

Julia Zemiro  13:37  
I watched one of those town halls on zoom with the four candidates, including you and you were just so succinct and clear as only a teacher can be. Because that's the other thing. You know, it's people say how do you train for politics and what schools none of them went to political school. It's, it's actually teachers who get up in front of kids and talk day after day after day after day after day after day, I think have more kind of energy and more experiencing going I don't need every single person in this room to hear what I'm saying. I just need a few of you to be you know, kind of watching. I know I can see what you're doing. I can see what you're doing. I didn't I did Rick and teachers have this incredible peripheral vision and hearing. They see everything that's happening. They choose to react to the bits they've got to react to.

Penny Ackery  14:24  
I love it. That's right. And I mean, it's sort of even coming to kind of and there is some conflict in Parliament at times. There are some things that are said that probably shouldn't be said. And it's as a teacher, well, you just know, like, the worst way to deal with a conflict is to continue the conflict. So just pull back and chill out. And I think that's an important skill that everybody making whatever walk of life needs to happen. Don't get hung up about what somebody's saying, pull back and reassess. And just ignore it and just go on as you're doing. And I mean, you know, as a special ed teacher, that's a great Have a skill to have. Because if you don't have it

Julia Zemiro  15:04  
before you were saying, some people have been coming up to you and saying, I've never come to something like this before, I've never been engaged before. So if we're waking people up a little bit, do you think once one person is woken up, that they're awake? Like, there's no going back? Do you feel like they'll keep being engaged?

Penny Ackery  15:27  
Look, I believe they will, because I think some people have just sort of gone along and voted and went and shatter their television screens, but not actually become actively involved in what's happening. Now, obviously, if we just have the same people voted back in again, that's going to be harder for them to get that engagement. When I get in, they will be able to engage, because I'll be there knocking on their door saying, Well, you know, come on, what do you think you need, you know, we need to work on this together. But even if it goes back to be the same old bad way we've got at the moment, I think those people that had been energized and decided there's better ways of doing things, and they have got a voice, I think they'll be banging on the door a lot more. And I think they've found that, you know, a lot of these volunteers, we've got 1000s of them have really networked together and formed groups of friendships. And knowing that there's, you know, there's a few of us that will actually go up and, and complain and say, Well, we haven't been answered, why haven't we? I think that might give people a real lift to be able to feel they can do that. Now.

Julia Zemiro  16:31  
What have you found surprising out there talking to people,

Penny Ackery  16:34  
the number of local issues that we don't know. So what I've been doing, as, I guess, educating perhaps, or passing the message around, so I visited up, they wanted me to go up to Silverdale, which is very north in the electorate, up around Warragamba Latinum. Going up there, because people were really very concerned about the lack of consultation that's happening around this new airport, the Sydney the second Sydney Airport, all the things that are happening with zoning. So people have actually built a house with a granny flat because they want to rent it out while Mum can look after the kids and it provides income. And then suddenly the rezoning happens. And they have to take the granny flat down or they're not allowed to put the second storey on. And so these people aren't being consulted. So I've been talking about that issue about the rezoning that just suddenly happens and the issues that are happening with this airport and not the lack of information about it. So hearing about that and then coming down to the Picton people who are having trouble with their bypass or haven't got one yet that's the trouble. And then going down to even Tara go which is far south here from here with their incinerator waste incinerator. So it's all the different issues that you don't realize it so it surprised me. And how many different issues are more local to that area, what has been great is to actually inform those people down, say in gunning, this is what's happening around the airport area. And let me tell you, when I go north, what's happening down here, so it's not so much surprising, but it's been it's been an experience to be able to let people know what happens on their patch is really important to them. But there's a whole lot of other things that may affect one day, especially with signing what's going to happen on their patch as well, even though at the moment might not. So maybe not so much surprising. But I've been surprised in the passion of those local people about what's happening in their area. Just two days ago, two evenings ago, I went to Crookwell Crookwell had funded over the many years and ran through voluntary assistance through a voluntary board, wonderful aged care home. And when I went into that hole to talk about what was going to happen to the aged care home because they now need to merge with United care they're going to merge with Cole was packed, there would have been a well over 200 people there. And the feeling in the room of that community, how passionate they are about keeping that aged care in their area, rather than having it closed down and move somewhere else. And the work and the effort and the volunteering that's happened to make these aged care work for so many years, and the passion they want. They have in keeping it open. That was really an eye opener rather than surprising to know that in a small community, people really work together and really care about each other. And the importance of this. There were a lot of young people there as well as older people and the nurses were there their concern about what is what is happening in aged care all over that's affecting them. That was really uplifting to know that so many communities like that can come together and really make a difference in a change.

Julia Zemiro  19:48  
What always astounds me with something like aged care and early childhood care is it's all of us. Like it's not something that exists over there. I'm going To be aged care in a few years, in 20 years time, you know, we are all going to be if we're lucky to live that long, we're going to be aged care. Our friends, I don't have my own children. But you know, the beginning of childcare, the beginning of how what kind of education and getting early childhood education, that is only going to help you become a better adult, a better citizen, a better voter, it just blows my mind. So when you hear all the horrible things that happened in aged care, that certainly came out during COVID. They are all our relatives, they are our friends and family. And this community is obviously and the young people too, are saying I want to be able to visit my grandmother. Every weekend, I want to know that my grandfather's being looked after, it's, I don't want to have to drive great distances to pop in and have a cup of tea. Because that's what makes us feel like a happier person and not be stressed because we've left them somewhere on the other side of the state. And there they all were. Yeah,

Penny Ackery  20:59  
that is so true. And that was one of the issues that was coming up that if that if you're likely it won't be closed, but there was a threat that it could be closed, which means that all those people from Crookwell, who have people that have lived in the area for decades, suddenly going off to some other aged care that really shows how important it is to keep those rural communities together. Because these people have built such an amazing thing, fundraising themselves, and volunteering on boards and keeping it all going for so long, that it's a special part of their town. And it's special to them, because it does keep their relatives, their moms, dads, grandparents, and so on, right within the community. So that community spirit is still there. And we need to be really aware that there are many, many, many regional communities that want that community spirit to see. It's almost like a big family of big extended family in these small communities. And we shouldn't be trying to make them bigger and bigger and bigger, we should acknowledge that. This is how some communities work best.

Julia Zemiro  21:58  
But also, if at a federal level and a state level, you allow those people to keep doing what they do so well, which is take initiative, do things try and keep things together, you work as a team, you're not having to do it all as a leader, necessarily, but you're empowering others, which is what makes us interested in being better citizens. It's what makes us interested in keeping things beautiful, green, healthy, nearby, close by connected. That's that's where I've been sort of fascinated in this whole process in the last year and because of COVID, shutting us all down and separating us all of how we all come back together again. And you know, don't get people keep saying they're disconnected from voting that citizens are disconnected from voting. They're often not disconnected from the community. But it's then how it translates to, oh, who's your voice, then that goes to camera and says, Oh, can I just tell you about Crookwell I hope people are starting to see that there's a link, you know, that there's like, there's this umbilical cord that takes you there, whether you like it or not, it's there. So if you want to complain and complain, if you're not going to do anything about it, then I can't help you.

Penny Ackery  23:09  
That's right, isn't it. And even, you know, I went there. And they said that I was there, I didn't speak or anything like that. I just listened and was amazed. But the number of people that came up and spoke to me about even the meal fellow from Meals on Wheels, who organizes it in Crookwell? And the saying, Look, you know, we get subsidized for seven meals, seven people, but we've actually they've actually assessed us and we've got 15. So there's an issue straightaway that go that I can take to higher levels to say, Well, you've the government has assessed that there are 15 people needing Meals on Wheels, but you're only subsidizing seven of them. So what happens to the rest of them. So it's things like that, that are really important.

Julia Zemiro  23:51  
And it's insulting to be ignored that way too, because it's about detail, the devil is always in the detail. We know that we know that. You see it as well in your work as a teacher. It's the little things, the details that add up to make something work. And, again, I would say any of the people who are standing as independents in their jobs and what they've done, I think more lived and work experience, then then many of the people in charge, what can people do to help at this point, Penny.

Penny Ackery  24:19  
So the best thing to do is to go onto my website, Penny accurate.com.au. And you can volunteer and there's spreadsheets there for volunteering for pre poll moving, or pre polling booths. And also obviously on the day itself, because like I mentioned, there's around about 80 polling booths on the day. So if we can have at least one preferably two people on each of those booths, that will be just enormously helpful and it will really, really make a difference. And so that's the best thing people can do at the moment. We're still you know, we're having people stand on the rail and road and on the sides of some of the other roads waving placards in the morning. so they can definitely volunteer for that. And that's a lot of fun doing that you meet lots of great people and and it's really uplifting when you have lots of honks and waves. And so that's a great thing. People are more than welcome to volunteer to do that. And again, they can volunteer through the website. The polling day is essential. And as many pre polling people that can come to man, the four polling booths beforehand is would be fantastic. Yeah, we've already got we've got a fair few already people volunteering, we've got a roster, but all the more the merrier. And minor just add, we have people coming from the Blue Mountains to do pre polling. We have people from Maggi coming to pre Paul, for us. We have people from Wellington, coming to pre Paul from Canberra. And these people have even been door knocking and letterboxing. So the feeling that we really, really need to change is not just within each separate electorate, but it's a broad thing. And people are wanting to help from outside to make that change happen.

Julia Zemiro  25:57  
That's that was my case. You know, I'm in Whitlam and you know, and I wanted to come and help because I mean, I'll say quite honestly, I don't think Angus Taylor's doing any good in that community. I don't think he understands that community. And I was interested to, the only way to learn about something is to become part of it. And doing that launch was so it was a very eye opening to me to about how it works and how I found a lot of the people, like I said in, in that basketball court, I was chatting to them beforehand, we all were we all chatting while we were waiting for it to start. And some of them were curious. Some of them were undecided. Some of them had never been to something like this before. As you've said, some knew exactly what was going on. Some was saying I've got a young person in my life, or my daughter's in her teens or my son's just turned 20. And and how did they get involved? They were hungry for information. And that's been very interesting to me. Because if people are hungry for information, we've got to give it to them. And I think what's been really dispiriting is I think we've had a government in the last 10 years that doesn't want to empower people at all to know less and less and less about what's going on. And don't ask the question, read the back page, just check out what's happening in sport and entertainment. And don't look at the rest. And our lives are just intertwined with what happens in Canberra, they just end locally in our electorate, we have to be we have to care you have to care otherwise can't complain. Sorry. That's my that's my I'd have a T shirt saying can't complain if you don't get involved.

Penny Ackery  27:34  
Yeah, look, that's true. And one of the other really big things that's come out through is even the volunteers people that are interested that you know, they are interested in politics, they're aware, the the lack of knowledge that people often have, about how the system works, how the actual voting works. So we've all got a bit of an idea, but I've was really informed by some of the things I've watched on YouTube about preferential voting. I thought I knew. But there's a whole lot of things wrong. Yeah, right. Okay. So what are us as volunteers and people that are talking to people on the streets, we're actually starting to educate if you like, people about what how they actually vote. And when you put a preference like what does that actually mean? Does it actually go anywhere? Or it might depend on the photo? But it's also making sure that they know which isn't the tablecloth? Or is it the little sheep? Which one are you wearing as low house with a little one, and I may not, they're educated people, but we don't, whether it's something we need to do in schools a lot more or whether it just me needs to be really hammered home when elections happen to remind people, because there's a system that works really well. But if we're informed about how we make the system work, then we empower ourselves a lot more. Acropolis the other day, I had a lady stopped me and she said, one of your door knockers came to the door, and I was in my pajamas. But my young young son came and you know, he's I think he was just turning to vote. And so this person was able to explain to him and I learned a lot she said about what you actually do on on voting day, and how you you know how the system works, but also about those other issues that I wasn't aware of, and he wasn't. So I believe we've actually not just had a an election campaign, but an education campaign to

Julia Zemiro  29:22  
100%. And it's got to keep going to because I remember the first time I voted, I didn't know that there was a huge sheet of paper and the small one. Now that's like a secret, isn't it? It's like a weird secret that people turn up and go, What is going is this? Is this normal that the papers this big? Why is it this big? No one really talks about it. And whenever people do talk about it in Canberra, it's the clicks. They know all about it, because they live it and breathe it and do it. Why is that not filtering down? And if people have not preferential voted properly in the past, well then what's the result of that? she'll even mean, you know, if you don't, if you're not voting in the correct way for what you might want by accident, then something's something seriously wrong. People only seem to have to talk about how to vote, when it happened when it needs to happen, rather than going learn it every year, learned every year, this is how it is Be it at school kids can tell their parents or parents don't even know. You know. And often that happens, isn't it? Doesn't it kids often are telling they're often educating their own parents about about things. So yeah, an education campaign. Absolutely. So people can get in touch get on the website, get out there. On the night itself. Where will you be? Do you think you're going to be local, with some people with your team?

Penny Ackery  30:47  
Well, we've been discussing that over the last few weeks. And at one stage, we thought I will make a place in the middle of the electorate and bus people in and then we thought, Well, somebody's got to drive home again, I think the lead, I think what we're going to try to do is have something in Golden, which is the biggest center down here. And then something up Camden way. And because we have so many volunteers up north down south, and I'm not because of the size of the electorate, I'd love to think I could get in and out, it takes us two and a half hours to get from Camden down to here. Don't think that's going to work. But especially because the results are going to come in pretty quick. And it's going to be number one meat anyway. Yeah, we thought it would. So we'll probably have two events, and seeing if we can work at so that we can actually people can stay in their own home state Bundanoon or a Ghanian or borrower, and they can zoom in and join the party. So we've yet to sort of work out the finer details of that. But to unlike in a smaller electorate, where you just have one and everybody pops in and it takes them half an hour to an hour. You know, we don't want people traveling late at night, you know that the polling booths shuts, and then they've got to rush down somewhere. So we're, we're looking at having two venues, and I'll probably stay down this area, I'll probably finish up there and then travel down. But that's the thought at the moment, but trying to see if we can get other people, the volunteers, they can stay in their own homes have their own little parties, but they connected to us. So yeah, I have to get my son in to do a bit of tech work their opinion

Julia Zemiro  32:15  
of what we all want we all Penny, I've never been more engaged in the election before. I've always been keen. I've always had little election parties and watch don't get me wrong. It's going to be a very interesting, maybe historically significant night, I think the best thing about what's happened, this election is a lot more people are asking questions and wanting to find out how this system works and how we can make it better for all of us. And that is not a glib sentence, I genuinely feel like we need to keep being involved in that. And you've been a very big part in being one of those incredible independents who have a perfectly nice life. And I'm happy doing the things they're doing, but stood up, volunteered to be one of the four was chosen and has worked incessantly since So personally, I want to thank you for just being that extraordinary. Get up and try get up and do and getting finding out so much information and bring it back to us and I have all my fingers crossed for you for the night Penny. It's been a real pleasure meeting you and being part of a little bit of a part of your of your journey.

Penny Ackery  33:24  
Well thanks, Julia. And I really appreciate the support that you're giving. But all the people around Australia who send me emails and best wishes and let's have a change. So far, so many people around Australia are looking for that change and all the support that you've given and other people have given. I think we were on the road to change.

Julia Zemiro  33:42  
Alright, fingers crossed. Thank you. Thanks, Julia.

Dan Ilic  33:47  
What out what up? Jay Z asked who cares? Should boy Jay Z makes noise novedge as a journalism hero, this is Julius Amira asks, Who cares?

Julia Zemiro  33:57  
I really want to thank penny for speaking with me today. It was actually her birthday. She told me at the end of the call. She had her brothers and family coming to visit for a barbecue that day. Also, Penny's husband, John after a long illness died a couple of weeks ago, and she's continuing with her campaign. And I really think that speaks to her commitment and energy and strength to keep on going. And she says she has said on on on her social media that it's something that he absolutely wanted her to keep going with. So and I think it's important to to tell you that Penny's campaign is crowd funded primarily by people from across the human electorate. She's not accepting funds from climate 200 As many of the Indies are, or get up or of course, she's not accepting anything from oil and gas companies or pharmaceuticals or any other special interest group. I thought it was worth pointing that out. And if you want to help, especially on polling day that's absolutely needed. So go to her website. To me, the whole election period has been a she says not just an election campaign, but an education campaign. Are you shocked? I am. I'm shocked by how many people don't quite know how the system works. And we really hopefully, will change that a bit more in the future because that's crazy. We should know a lot more about how the system works. All right. That's podcast number five. One more to go. CC

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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