100th EPISODE LIVE SHOW ANNOUNCEMENT!
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Here is the latest Greatest Moral Podcast of Our Generation featuring two great brains to help you deal with talking about climate change with your family at Christmas, Sarah Wilson and Dr. Rebecca Huntley.
If you think there’s even the slightest chance you’ll have to talk about emissions reduction schemes with an uncle that listens only to 2GB, or feel like you may have to tell a cousin that “baseload power” isn’t a thing, or tell your sister in law that a “gas led recovery” isn’t going to make electricity cheaper, then this is the podcast you’ll want to listen to.
Both Sarah and Rebecca give great insights into how to talk to people about climate change, and you on turn can take action yourself.
Also in this podcast Linh Do and I rip into the month of climate news, and there is a lot of it.
AND — DON'T FORGET TO GET TICKETS TO OUR LIVE SHOW!
We’re turning 100! Which means we’re updating our will, and we’ll add you to it if you come to our 100th episode live show. It’s going to be a 90 minute celebration of the little satirical comedy podcast that could. Featuring some new and old friends of A Rational Fear.
Alice Fraser (The Bugle, The Last Post)
Sami Shah (ABC Melbourne)
Gabbi Bolt (TikTok)
Lewis Hobba (Tony Martin Look-a-like)
Dan Ilic (Romper Room)
+ 2-3 Special (big name) guests we will book at the last minute.
WHERE?: Giant Dwarf
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TRANSCRIPTION FROM OTTER.AI:
Unknown Speaker 0:00
This podcast is supported in part by the birth of foundation.
Dan Ilic 0:04
Hello, rational fearlessness is the fourth greatest moral podcast of our generation. These are long form conversations with climate leaders that come out monthly on this very feed. And joining me is co host and fellow birth or fellow lindo gaylin.
Linh Do 0:18
Hey, hey, Dan, what's
Unknown Speaker 0:20
going on? Now? I
Dan Ilic 0:21
know something's going on your life. You suffered a major life milestone this week. Congratulations on enduring life to reach 30 years old. Well done.
Linh Do 0:28
Thank you. I feel like I have finally evolved into a fully fledged human. I think this is when I begin my adult use. This is just how it works.
Dan Ilic 0:36
Yeah, well, you will you and I were meant to start many years ago, but I only became an adult when I turned 36. So that's different.
Linh Do 0:42
Oh, I've got six years to go then that's that's pretty good. I'm really enjoying this extended youthful years and just trying to proclaim that I am young at heart if not in actuality anymore.
Dan Ilic 0:52
Well, I don't want to put any kind of climate things in context for your age. But by the time many of the nations who have committed to net zero by 2050 reach those targets, you'll be 60 How do you feel about that?
Linh Do 1:04
Off devastating but you know, when I started doing climate stuff, everyone was talking about 2020 and you know, all of the ambition that was needed by Ben, and someone surfaced up a video clip of me in my you know, teenage years saying in 2020 I'll be 30 and hopefully climate change anyway, it's like very, very clear. It's awful.
Dan Ilic 1:22
That sentence reminds me that there were so many Greta tunberg before Greta turn Berg and you were just one of them.
Linh Do 1:27
Just one of them. Yeah. And you know, I think I just didn't have a catchy enough name. And I didn't do anything as bold as striking from school. I'm still very diligent, I think Had I known then what I know now maybe I should have started striking a little bit earlier and we wouldn't have to be talking about 2015 when we're 60.
Dan Ilic 1:44
Well, people who are on this journey with us include new Patreon supporters, including Carl Christopher appears and someone called Grandmaster to sweet Thank you Grand Master to sweet. I'm recording my end of irrational fear on gadigal land in the urination lane, whose land Are you recording on?
Linh Do 1:58
I'm on the land of the will run through people.
Dan Ilic 2:00
sovereignty was never stated we need a treaty. Let's
Unknown Speaker 2:02
start the show. Despite global warming. Rational fear is adding a little more hot air with long form discussions with climate leaders. Good. This is called Don't be frightened. The heat waves and drought greatest mass extinction Morrow we're facing a man made disaster podcast ration all of this with global warming and a lot of it's a hoax. But write a small podcast about generation. For short,
Dan Ilic 2:41
yes. And this week, or rather, this month we speak to two giants of the Australian writing community on how to have difficult conversations with your family and friends about climate change. It's a it's a pretty good time of year for this episode to come out when you say Lynne
Linh Do 2:54
totally I think the holiday season is gonna be great initially because we have seen people Jitta COVID lockdowns and whatnot. But after a couple of hours, you'd be like, Oh, right. That's my Uncle Ben, here's maybe a bit of a climate denier. Is that my cousin who doesn't believe in vaccines? How do I broach some of these topics? And I find it's been a hard one to talk about for years. Well,
Dan Ilic 3:14
let me tell you, the two guests we have on the show today are going to be able to help us through those tricky conversations. We've got Sarah Wilson, and Dr. Rebecca Huntley, and they, the conversations are great. I had a really good time with them. But first, Lynn, let's Miss rip into this month's climate news. There has been a metric shit tonne of climate news this month. Incidentally, a metric shit tonne was all the carbon that Chevron managed to capture and store the golden planet wi this year. Climate nice climate jog for everyone. Are you overwhelmed by how much climate news has come out in November?
Linh Do 3:48
I think like in November, but honestly this entire year as well, I think second to COVID surely climate has sort of been really up there in terms of things are constantly being announced both like good and bad, which is great, but very overwhelming and very surprising.
Dan Ilic 4:02
First up, the treasurer isn't happy that financial institutions are deserting fossil fuels. So there's only one thing a treasurer can do launch an inquiry. According to the nine papers, federal Treasurer Josh frydenberg, has thrown his support behind a proposed inquiry that will grill financial regulators and banks over plans to pull back on lending or insuring on mining projects because of climate change. This is a this is a weird story. It's like the treasurer isn't noticing what's happening around the world.
Linh Do 4:30
Yeah, he's not at all about the macro trends. It's only about the micro and only about what's happening in his own backyard.
Dan Ilic 4:36
Should we be so surprised that a government has spent the entire pandemic trying to sell expensive gas to Australians and trying to sell coal to China who are refusing it? Is it any surprise that a government that's racked up the largest debt and living memory is giving away billions and gas royalties that they can't do the maths on fossil fuel investment?
Linh Do 4:53
Not at all. I don't think we're ever getting back in the black and you know, and even though I'm 30 now still a millennial at heart and it's so Sometimes can feel like it's much harder to get a loan for a mortgage than it is to get a loan for a big coal project. So it feels like if I just changed a couple of words in an application and be like, Hey, here's the money like go right ahead. So it's really disappointing that the government tried to make that all the more easy. Yeah,
Dan Ilic 5:14
you shouldn't be but you shouldn't be trying to buy a house where you only own the first six inches of soil. You need to be digging underneath.
Linh Do 5:22
Yes, gotta gotta dig dig, but uh, just go big ol Gerhard.
Dan Ilic 5:26
It's kind of interesting. Like, it's so funny how, you know, if the government can't get their way on something like this, they have to go, Oh, we need an inquiry. an inquiry we should get an inquiry going? Because it seems like the science and financial markets are wrong again.
Linh Do 5:40
Yep. everywhere around the world, and even like from some different state governments as well, it just does not seem to make any logical sense at all, which, I guess is not surprising when it comes to our government.
Dan Ilic 5:50
Well, it's certainly not surprising that Australia wasn't invited to speak at the UN Climate ambition summit last week. Was that something that caught you by surprise at all?
Linh Do 5:59
It didn't catch me by surprise, but it was definitely a bit of a gleeful moment, I could not believe that of all people that we were snubbed by it was Boris Johnson. I don't know what that says about skarmory. But that is not that's not something I'd want to be known for
Dan Ilic 6:11
was really interesting, because Boris Johnson, of course, is hosting cop 26 next year, so he's got to kind of be on the front foot, he's got to look like he's acting on climate change, because everyone around him is coming to the party next year, to be part of it next, next November. So he's got to actually, you know, be one of the leaders. And so that really puts you in an odd position. I think it's so funny how, you know, Scott Morrison, two weeks out from the climate ambition summit said he's not going to use Kyoto credits anymore when trying to kind of meet the Paris targets. And that would have been a good enough thing for him to allow him to speak at the climate.
Linh Do 6:45
told the reaction, right, like such unrealistic and unmatchable, like expectations are really big tantrum. And then at the very last minute be like, okay, maybe I'll concede maybe I'll do this. And like lots of people like, hey, that's great. But it's like, but was it really?
Dan Ilic 7:01
Yeah, the whole the whole conference is called the climate ambition summit. There's nothing ambitious about not cheating. Like, that's not ambitious. That's the bare minimum. It's so interesting.
Linh Do 7:13
I'm not doping.
Dan Ilic 7:14
Here's some of the things that are announced on that climate ambition summit, the UK announced they'll cut emissions by 68% of 1990 levels by 2030. That's a further 10% increase in ambition, the EU committed to the new target to 55% of carbon emissions compared to 1990. By 2030. Israel and Pakistan have committed to not building any new coal plants. I'm sure that's harder for Pakistan than Israel to do. But China also has committed to a quarter of energy consumption to come from non fossil fuels by 20 3015 countries committed to much stronger NDC or nationally determined contributions. Lean for people who don't speak climate, what is an NDC?
Linh Do 7:52
So when the NDC I can't believe it. Wow, sorry. I was just so eager to add to that, because I clearly do speak climate and climate walk the crime that doesn't get invited around to dinner party. That's right. So one of the big things that came out of the Paris Agreement was that every country agreed to an end deseo to this nationally determined contribution. And the whole idea is rather than listening to that big global world order and doing things that might not fit for your country, governments could consider what their domestic obligations were, what other issues I had going on all those sorts of things, and determine how they were going to reduce their emissions by how much and went by. And one of the things that I think is a really great feature of this, like whole MDC acronym business is the idea is, you don't just lock in your goal, once you actually lock in your goal. And then every couple of years, you revisit it, and you re assess based on how well you've been able to do. So if you like smashed it, right, let's go a little bit harder and keep pushing for an even better personal best, essentially,
Dan Ilic 8:45
is this what they call the ratchet mechanism. Lin.
Linh Do 8:49
Yes, I don't even know if ratchet is a real word. I have honestly looked it up in the dictionary before be like, is this a hatchet ratchet? What am I saying? But it's just this whole idea that we are ratcheting up so ratcheting I think means increasing. Again. I don't know if it's actually that in the dictionary, but it's how climate people use it.
Dan Ilic 9:06
Right. Excellent. I believe it's a old school like it's an old school tool, like it's a ratchet. It's like a spanner you kind of pull it and pulling mechanical, mechanical thing. Also, at the climate ambition summit, the UK, France and Sweden will stop financial support of international fossil fuel projects. It's not just Australia just writing Berg. Also net zero targets have moved forward from 2050 by Finland, Austria and Sweden. Also the small island states coalition committed to net zero by 2030. And there is going to be a tonne more money from for the Green Climate Fund support developing countries to skip the whole fossil fuel part of their industry. 500 million euros from Germany, 1 billion euros from France. Now when you compare all of those incredible announcements to Australia going, you know what, you know, we have been shading the last 20 years to meet our climate emissions. You know, tell you what we We're not going to shoot anymore since 1997. We've been filthy little cheats, but we're not going to do it anymore. Do you think that is a good enough thing to put on this put on stage in front of the world?
Linh Do 10:10
It's so embarrassing. And I really hope people continue to mistake me as being from Australia rather than Australia without, you know, some of their recent new announcements, happy to move to Vietnam.
Dan Ilic 10:21
A couple of other things quickly just seemed odd, done declared a climate emergency for New Zealand. Does it have any kind of real world implications? Lynn?
Linh Do 10:29
I mean, yes, and no, I think it's one of those things where we love to stab some politicians. And just Cinder is like definitely one that those of us in Australia really love. So he caught me by surprise that Greta toon Burg was a bit critical of that, but I think it's right like can you really stand a politician? Can you really do that while still holding them to account?
Dan Ilic 10:47
Yeah, a couple of other things quickly. One sad thing and one happy thing. The sad thing is more than $3 million dollars of the Australian future fund has been invested in the Carmichael mine, the Adani Carmichael mine, the 60 wishes, that is a quite, that's a $3 million isn't a lot of money. But it is our money that's being invested in this dog of a project
Linh Do 11:09
that might not even get up and when I say might not even highly unlikely to get out. I don't know how many years we've been talking about this. Now no one will finance this project. There's no viability for it. But we're still pouring money literally down the drain.
Dan Ilic 11:21
It was discovered by Ravana Ross, who is a human rights lawyer for the Australian Centre for International Justice. And basically she did fly on where the money was going, he was going into this project. Because a Danny has strong links to the Myanmar military regime and supplying them with logistics and support for their military, which of course has huge human rights implications because of the treatment of the Rohingya population. So that is pretty interesting, like, not only is Australia committing their own human rights, but they're indirectly supporting a Danny's support of Myanmar's human rights problems,
Linh Do 11:58
the company we keep increasingly becomes more and more depressing both on climate and human rights issues.
Dan Ilic 12:04
Let's wrap This news segment with something a bit more hopeful South Australia's liberal state government predicts that the state could boast more than 500% renewable energy by 2050. This is the Liberal government in South Australia saying South Australia is going to become a net exporter by 2050, up to 500 times their own capacity of renewable energy. Isn't
Linh Do 12:26
that incredible? It really is. And these are the big numbers that you want to hear. You know, on top of Tasmania being powered by 100% renewable energy South Australia leading the way, it's really clear that like liberal governments can do something just maybe not at the federal level right now.
Dan Ilic 12:40
It's just head butting Li crazy that the federal government can't even jump on board with any kind of climate action because they've pinned themselves into this corner where it would be politically impossible to do they've done their anger.
Linh Do 12:53
They really, really have, it feels like the Liberal Party needs a little bit of help talking about climate change within their own regs, because clearly, they're quite divided on just how we should tackle this issue.
Dan Ilic 13:04
That's it, I'm going to start a new company, rational fee is going to pivot to helping solely the Liberal Party communicate about climate change
Linh Do 13:11
with one another, like let's just stop it because it feels like there's some good eggs in that cap. And like, you know, we've heard from a few of them on this podcast. So how can we spread that good message?
Dan Ilic 13:20
I haven't got that little party money yet, so please donate to the Patreon. Still, it's really required. Anyway, let's get cracking into the interview. First up is Dr. Rebecca Huntley. She and I discuss the ins and outs of communicating climate change and climate science with basically anyone her book is called How to talk about climate change in a way that makes a difference. And you'll find out by listening to her that there is, there is a couple of things that can help you with your dinner party conversations.
Unknown Speaker 13:49
You're listening to the greatest moral podcast about generation. First of all,
Dan Ilic 13:55
I'm a big fan. So thank you for doing this.
Rebecca Huntley 13:57
I'm a big fan of you. It's a mutual fan Association Appreciation Society.
Dan Ilic 14:03
I just remember seeing on stage years ago, a guy and you're talking about something and I just thought she's the funniest person I don't know.
Rebecca Huntley 14:11
Well, I wouldn't describe myself as Australia's funniest market research. Which I, which is a claim that I can back up having been to many market research conferences in my time.
Dan Ilic 14:23
That's what we do in irrational fear. We bring the biggest brains with the biggest laughs to the programme. So it's great that you're you're joining us. And you've written a book about how to talk about climate change in a way that makes a difference. In fact, that is the title of the book. Yes, yes. That's right. You're You're now on a podcast called the greatest moral podcast of our generation. So I'm familiar with wordy titles. I thought it'd be great to get you on to talk about exactly what your book talks about. Because in the lead up to Christmas, people are going to be hanging around their lunch tables with relatives who may not agree with them on climate change. And I thought this could be a great primer for Christmas lunch. had a bit of a testy kind of moment last Christmas talking about energy and climate with one of my cousins. And thankfully, a lot of other my other my cousins are lawyers, and they came to buy defence at Christmas lunch. But it was a very interesting, it was interesting conversations. We're talking about renewables. And I was just saying, well, it's, you know, this government was saying that this government needs to invest more in renewables and really make a market incentive to have less coal. And I think my cousin at the time, probably still is a big TGV listener and said, Well, absolutely crazy that he went down the baseload power route, or the write down about all these kind of talking points that the carbon lobby have. Yeah. And then, thankfully, I've got some cousins who have done some extreme reading around energy. They're like, Well, actually, so we're having this fact often buddy
Rebecca Huntley 15:44
mentioned you killer, which put nuclear in the mix? That's always a bit of a indication of
Dan Ilic 15:49
No, no, no, no mention of nuclear. I wonder why? I don't know. Yeah, no mention of nuclear. Got a bit testy there around lunchtime. And I thought we're heading into Christmas. Maybe there's a better way to handle this conversation. Yeah, let's talk Rebecca has written a whole book about it. But the very virtue that you've written a book may not mean that you you'll have much success at your own Christmas lunch?
Rebecca Huntley 16:12
Well, look, it's interesting, I suppose the first thing I need to say is that this year, more than any other year, people are, probably people's tanks are pretty low. And they're probably feeling pretty stretched emotionally because of the year and a level of uncertainty. So I would approach these conversations with loved ones with even greater trepidation, empathy and understanding. That being said, we aren't we don't have the luxury of not talking about hard things, because people are tense, because people are going to continue to be tense. And of course, Christmases are always going to be a trigger point. But people are tired. So I think you approach it with that kind of perspective. I think what's really difficult, and I think a lot about this in writing the book. And even more since writing the book is now my whole life is the climate movement and working with people in the climate movement more broadly, is that you need to also think about your own sense of self care. Where is the best place to put my energies, one of the things I see a lot of is burnout in the movement, and people feeling like they're just such at such a low ebb. They want to walk on the streets, grabbing people by the shop, shaking the world, what are you doing? What are we doing? So my sense is unless you really want unless you've got the energy, and you feel like your relationships are close enough, you know, to try this out at the dinner table, I think the first thing to really talk about is just really understand why people feel the way they do. And for your cousin who just listens to 2g Bay, my first question is, are is GGB, the main place to get your information about climate. And for me, one of the most powerful things and I do this every now and then on Twitter, and I think the reaction that I get on Twitter is a bit of an indication of how effective this is. So sometimes when people have a doubt me about renewables, not being able to, you know, meet our energy needs, one of the things I really enjoy doing is retweeting stories about that already happening. So what's already happened, like we've just had a, we've just had it mixed, you know, some achievements in Tasmania, in South Australia, the kinds of projects that were lampooned by TJ Bay a couple of years ago, and now making enormous amounts of money. One of my favourite examples is, is the tomato, the soul powered tomato farm and Porter gusta, which is creating jobs for people who had actually been in a town that had been abandoned by the fossil fuel industry. So there are tonnes of examples all around Australia that we don't champion that gives us a sense of what is possible, right, right now and in the near future in relation to renewables.
Dan Ilic 18:49
So sitting down to Christmas lunch, the first question is to my cousin is, Oh, that's interesting. Where do you get your climate information from? Right.
Rebecca Huntley 18:58
And then I think part of it is also recognising that we get it to a lot from you know, the guardian or the rest of it. And, and, and Rebecca Holly's Twitter feed. And, look, it's really difficult. And in the end, I think one of the things that we save from the research that we do, and the search I'm doing at the moment, which which segments Australian communities around climate and how they feel is that you don't always have to convince people about the climate science to convince people about the solutions and broadly about 90% of the population thinks wants renewable energy to provide our energy needs and understand that coal and gas there are well, there might amplify the amount of jobs that the coal and gas industry can produce domestically, but they're not naive about for example, the fact that the coal industry contributes to pollution significantly, which contributes to health and things like coal seam gas, even even Alan Jones can agree that coal seam gas is not a good solution. To our energy needs, because of the consequences, it has on a whole range of things, including, you know, food security and farmers. So there are ways I think I'm always looking at ways to not to sidestep but negotiate through conversations to keep those conversations going, as part of an ongoing challenge that we all have to head towards the solutions as
Dan Ilic 20:23
quickly as this is a very easy thing for a beggar hunter researcher, who is researching all of Australia's climate values and segmenting people into demographics. If you're not Rebecca hoppy, should you read up on the latest IPCC report? Oh, going into Christmas?
Rebecca Huntley 20:39
Well, that's a really, really good point. One of the things that's fascinating in the work that we do on people who are alarmed about climate change, which is definitely on me. So when we ask people, what's their biggest, the biggest challenge they face the biggest obstacle to talking more about climate change or doing more is they feel they don't know enough about the climate science. And to tell you the truth, you don't need to know that much. You only and and you only need to know enough to help you have that conversation. And in fact, in the work that we do, which segments that community, the only segment that feel like they absolutely under the sun, understand the climate science and a really confident are talking about it. What segment is that? You could give nerds deny the only group that genuinely feel like I know all the climate science, I'm across it, right? And I'm really confident talking about it is 9% of the population that denies all the rest of us feel like we can't talk about it. Why? Because we actually respect the expertise that sits behind the climate science. We know that if pretty much every single scientist in Australia with a PhD says this is happening and it's a serious problem. We need to believe them. Because for whatever reason, and I'm I've thought about this, we just we just Australians generally respect, expertise. It says there's exclusive exclusions to that. But in general, when we say Where should we be getting our information, the CSR, the Bureau of Radiology, we trust them,
Dan Ilic 22:13
nothing kind of highlights that more than the crisis of COVID-19. I think like when you compare Australia to America, like watching Australians fall in line with the cops is more interesting than watching Americans try to grapple with their freedoms of not wearing a mask.
Rebecca Huntley 22:29
That's exactly right. And well paid Evans can get and get a certain way. There is a point where everybody goes, No, I'm sorry.
Dan Ilic 22:37
Yeah. He kind of lucky that on the rational fear, we have been making fun of those outliers, because they are so funny on Twitter and their social media is hysterical.
Rebecca Huntley 22:46
I think making fun of them is the best way forward. But we do need to be vigilant, because one of the things that's really clear is that is that the more they get an opportunity to circulate these blatant untruths, the more people assume them have followers. So once again, the research has shown this time and again, when you ask people who believe in climate change how many deniers around the community, they always put it at 20 25%. It's 9%. So we add, those views are amplified. And as a result, we think they're more widespread than they actually are.
Dan Ilic 23:20
I totally agree like talking with Matt cane the other day on irrational fear. I was like, man, what's up with your party? Why? Why are they full of climate deniers? He's like, well, Dan, I would say majority of liberals believe in climate science. And one climate action is just that we've got a few people in the federal level, who making all the noise. I think that's, that's so interesting.
Rebecca Huntley 23:41
I'm a more prepared to accept that there'll be people in the community who are climate deniers, and their job is not to run the country. You know what I mean? Their accountants, their teachers, it doesn't matter. And in the end, I think banging our head against a war to convince them is a waste of time. However, if you're in Parliament, you have a larger responsibility,
Dan Ilic 24:00
while you're saying is there a six climate deniers you need to change the minds? Well,
Rebecca Huntley 24:05
we're not going to change their mind, we need to change the mind of the people who elected them to say, they deserve better representation that's happened in Moringa. And I won't be surprised the next election you'll get a lot of those climate deniers have a significant scare certainly in the lower house. I mean, it's one thing to and this is the thing that that that in the book on tonight and the chapter on denial, I say this, there were times where I fantasise about being a climate tonight because my wife would be a lot easier. I mean, I could I could give up what I'm doing now and and pursue my love of making jam for a living or whatever, or designing you know, designing a modernist dog houses, I could do whatever I wanted to do, you know, I would be released of this kind of jewel, passion fear that I have around climate change and feeling I need to do something about it. So I get why people denied I get why people want To push back on the reality, but I cannot guess that people who represent the community empowerment cannot see the opportunity that we have right now the economic and other and broader opportunities we have on acting on climate, because for the first time in a long time, we don't have to turn ourselves into knots to make a case for renewable energy bank, something that's going to be good for people for jobs for pollution. We don't have to make that case that case has been made, which is why people like Matt cane can make that case and the Liberal Party. So that's what I don't get.
Dan Ilic 25:38
There's an insane amount of money to be made.
Rebecca Huntley 25:40
There isn't a lot of money to be made. There is a lot of benefits to communities to be made. I see it all the time. They were the most
Dan Ilic 25:47
infamous or famous versions that is that the Daylesford community yeah with their with their one wind turbine chapter two wind turbines now they're an exporter. Yeah. of electricity.
Rebecca Huntley 25:57
And the original investors are making money. That's great. Yeah. I mean, it just can't clear it's just I mean it all you need to do is add Labrador puppies and it's the most wonderful story. Almost unmitigated, wonderful story. I'm
Dan Ilic 26:12
saying the same here. You invest in renewables for your community, then you can go and make bottlenose dogs.
Unknown Speaker 26:19
Right for those Labrador puppies.
Dan Ilic 26:21
What's interesting about your book is that it's kind of like when you look at the chapter list, it kind of reads like a therapy session. Yeah. guilt, fear, anger, denial, despair, hope, lost love. Why don't you just call it a cold love? That would have been?
Rebecca Huntley 26:39
Well, look, it's interesting, because some I used to be talking to Sarah Wilson, and we've been friends for a long time. I think she and all of my friends who were very focused on emotion in their lives think it's quite funny because I'm the ultimate rationalist. right a lot of great PhD. They're constantly tase me because I'm not spiritual. I'm not emotional with a warm you know, I'm, I'm not particularly emotional. I think I can count the times I've cried in the last 10 years, probably on one hand.
Dan Ilic 27:05
I think you and Sarah have written companion books, in many respects. Your book is kind of raiza it's it is
Rebecca Huntley 27:14
it still may it's still I'm still doing the research. Oh, yeah.
Dan Ilic 27:17
So the research I but it's like it's it's a different kind of book to Sarah Sarah's is very spiritual in a, in a kind of journey, yours is, is very different based on lots of other kind of aspects. Do you think you need kind of both in your world,
Rebecca Huntley 27:32
we need 10s of 1000s of voices. And Sarah is one voice that will appeal to certain groups of people who might pick up my book and not like it other people, it will be Sarah's will be too spiritual. And they'll want to kind of understand the science. But there is an overlap, in that Sarah is actually interested in the research, like she's not a complete, she's not a paid Evans,
Dan Ilic 27:54
she's not completely distracted, our distance from her books got a lot of science,
Rebecca Huntley 27:59
it has a lot of science in it. And we have those conversations. And for me, there's a emotional personal story in it that I wouldn't have normally put in my work. But it was important to be able to acknowledge that because it's what drives my climate activism. And it's part of my climate story. And that's what we need more people developing a climate story, whatever that might look like.
Dan Ilic 28:22
And to clarify that up you what you're talking about is your kids. I mean, you're you talk about the beginning of your book about how you kind of got into this, you kind of acknowledged a little bit earlier on in our chat that you're kind of a Johnny come lately, the climate? Yeah. How does it feel to kind of come late to the climate saying, Do climate activists look at you and go, where have you been? Like,
Rebecca Huntley 28:43
I'm very, I'm very gentle in what I when I identify what have been some of the perhaps the tactical mistakes made? Because I wasn't around You don't? That whole Adani convoy, that was a big mistake. Well, I mean, I'm very careful about that site like that, by
Dan Ilic 28:59
the way, that's gonna sound bad in the trans
Rebecca Huntley 29:02
if it's pulled out, because I never doubt that what people are trying to do is get to a goal that's bigger than it is right. So I know and I know there's so much pain and suffering and genuine love in the in the climate movement. And also there is just okay, what's going to work it's one of one of the things that fascinated me about the climate move when COVID here is when COVID hit every other sector that I was involved in all other workplaces just kind of froze in the headlights. Everybody knew in the climate movement was like, Okay, what do we do now? Like they were just part of that they just had such get up and go on with it. So it's like, how do we take what we were going to do? Understand COVID and keep going and actually it sustained me in so I've, I feel like I'm getting so much from being involved with people and also there's a willingness and hunger for some new People who are prepared to spend their time helping in a collaborative sense. So it does feel like I've come light with. But I would say this one occasion when I feel guilty that is that I have spent 15 years understanding how Australians feel about everything else. And how they feel about climate change is connected to that if you're economically anxious, you're living in regional Queensland, and you always feel like government is letting you down. When you talk to somebody about climate change, they're not responding to the science, they're responding to all of that. Right, if you live in the inner city, like me, in you behind the tumeric latte curtain here, particular views about particular values about Mr. Evans tear down this wall. And then that's it. So I think in a way, it's been a circuitous path towards climate change. But all understanding and knowledge that I've got from that I've worked for years with the superannuation industry. So understanding the role that it can play now, in climate change is actually important. I've spent years working with the big supermarkets and understanding that that's going to help us well, you have spent this time doing this, what
Dan Ilic 31:10
do you think are the things that connect all those elements together?
Rebecca Huntley 31:14
Look, I think the first thing we have to we have to get is that there has been a consistent and a consistent and very effective campaign to make climate change, a question of cultural identity politics, and unravelling that is near difficult in the time that we have available. So we have to understand where people come culturally and socially to the issue in order to address it. Yeah, that's the first thing I would argue. This is why somebody like Matt Kane, and that has to inform our tactics.
Dan Ilic 31:52
Yes, it is so strange, too. I am not a liberal voter I've ever been voted liberal for a very long time, if ever, and it's one of those things where seeing Matt Cain operate at the level he's operating, and making the noises on renewables is genuinely exciting to me. Oh, it's
Rebecca Huntley 32:10
so excited, like,
Dan Ilic 32:11
Oh my god,
Rebecca Huntley 32:13
I didn't know it was outside.
Dan Ilic 32:14
That is the champion we need. I feel like there's a champion in those circles to change them.
Rebecca Huntley 32:20
In fact, when he first started talking, I remember just looking at me thinking it was like, you probably too young to remember this. It's like when you're watching Funniest Home Videos, and there's a father doing something, and you're like with his kids, and you're like, at some moment, he's going to be kicked in the nuts. And I just don't know how I tell I felt looking at Matt Cain, I thought what's gonna out there?
Dan Ilic 32:42
That was my question. My question is, are you going to be assassinate?
Rebecca Huntley 32:47
Really, I really was. She was that same? That same moment of kind of nervous tension laughter about when he was gonna be whacked, but he hasn't.
Dan Ilic 32:58
As someone who worked on Funniest Home Videos, Rebecca, how
Rebecca Huntley 33:00
did it change, the
Dan Ilic 33:01
lexicon is growing hit always the greatest growing hits,
Rebecca Huntley 33:05
I was waiting for a God Almighty growing here, and it hasn't come. And in fact, it's unlikely to come just because of what happened what they managed to push through Parliament, New South Wales Parliament last week, which is that they're just going to be creating best putting those building blocks in. And once that happens, once a community starts to see the benefit, they don't turn back, they don't turn back when they know that those things are going to work. So no, absolutely. And in fact, one of the big insights coming out of this book was the importance of in the same way that the voices of deniers have been amplified. We need to amplify the voices that that I suppose. And pique or surprise people, this person cares about climate. That's why I was so interested in farmers for climate action, around a lot of a lot about faith leaders talking about climate, from the point of view of their faith, and conservatives of all kinds really, critically important. It's important because different people have to see themselves as having as people like them talking about climate and talking about the benefits, or we don't make that connection.
Dan Ilic 34:18
One of the things you can suggest in your book is to not use catastrophic language. Yeah. This podcast is called irrational fear. It's, it's a it's kind of a joke. Oh, yeah. I'm using catastrophic language. And Rebecca using catastrophic language is fun. Yeah, absolutely. I know if you know that. So like, but why shouldn't we be doing that?
Rebecca Huntley 34:40
Well, I mean, again, it's all horses for courses for some. And this is why understanding who you're talking to, and where they are now and where you might be able to shift them is critically important. All right, if you even five or six years ago, when I was when I was concerned about climate, but it wasn't the main part of my life. I actually did have some friends in my Who would just would use this language and I would just kind of, you know, shrink away, I'm gonna be, again, you might be too young for this. I remember years ago, when Bob Carr was premiere on on New Year's Day, he released this statement about climate change. And I remember thinking about what was at stake for the environment, and I'm thinking, he's gone mad. I just couldn't understand it. Now you look back at it. And he's obviously reading the climate science. You know, it's all you know, many things you want about Bob Carr, he genuinely cares about the environment. And I wasn't receptive at that moment for that, but something happened. And now I raised the uninhabitable Earth and other things, and listen to some of the climate science and which I do every now. And then I don't do it all the time. But it's important to keep my eyes focused on the task. So I'm receptive to it. It's absolutely clear that there are other audiences that are completely unreceptive and may never grow to be receptive. We need to think about how can we shift them political behaviour, consumer behaviour, you know, bit for other reasons, right. We need to inject a sense of urgency for them that isn't about walls and fire and all the rest of it is about something else. So you distil it's all about? I'm not saying never use it, I'm saying understand the impact that it's going to have so understand the audience, why are using it and what you want to get them to do for me, I would dip into something like the uninhabitable Earth maybe once a month, or I'd tune into her site I just the other day, I was listening to some of the latest science, just about the challenge of not just reducing emissions, but drawdown like dramatic like drop when I started thinking, because every all of my work moment, is completely focused on renewables and emissions. And then I started thinking, that's just one side of the problem. Yeah, just thinking. And I started, and my friend, he was also on the zoom texted me and she said, Are you are you? Are you having a panic attack too? And I said, Yep. And badly. It was important because I walked away thinking I actually need to start doing more research on the jewel language around drawdown and emissions reduction, I have to get my head around it.
Dan Ilic 37:16
This is probably a good place to mention that you can look up the carbon emissions from your car with a go neutral sticker for $90 going to show for offset 3.5 tonnes of your carbon from your car and you can put a sticker on the back of a car, you know, I just did this Yeah, then check out the link in the show notes. And five bucks of that comes to us.
Rebecca Huntley 37:35
Now this is f this sounds like it sounds like completely fake. But actually, I did this week go.
Dan Ilic 37:43
Oh, so you got my cast away from listening to our podcast,
Rebecca Huntley 37:47
not from your podcast, sadly, bash, but I saw them on Instagram, I thought because so I'm in the situation where I want to get a Navy, but I've probably about three or four years away from getting one yeah. And you know, in a bit of a you know, COVID is meant I bless my marriage. So I don't know if huge amounts of money. So I thought this is a really good bridge between what my car is now and when I'm going to get a Navy. I mean,
Dan Ilic 38:12
it really doesn't do anything except for purchasing with other people that you're a good person, but that's
Rebecca Huntley 38:16
not a bad bet in this area. And I'm deep behind the chimeric lotto circle. It's all about the virtue signalling. I can't shame people. I have a gun. The sticker on my car. I have so many. I mean, here, you could get beaten with a Hessian bag if you walk around with a plastic bag.
Dan Ilic 38:35
Thank you so much, Rebecca, you for coming on irrational fear. I just want to maybe do a quick roleplay with you Sure. Let's pretend we're sitting down Christmas lunch. I'll be my cousin. Okay. And you can talk me around climate as
Rebecca Huntley 38:51
well look in these kinds of environments, just ending with a conversation that doesn't end in turfing, some kind of, you know, bread roll at the table isn't success, but
Dan Ilic 39:02
let's go. Okay. Well, you know, the problem with renewables is just another baseload power to to power the country. That's what we need baseload power. Why do you think that? Oh, just see everything I've read.
Rebecca Huntley 39:15
With some way
Dan Ilic 39:16
I've written in the Daily Telegraph, Andrew bolt, right headlight tells me all the time on TV, basically power. I've also done some reading on some great blogs. I can't remember the name. I've probably never be able to find a rice
Rebecca Huntley 39:28
book. Alright. Okay.…