#11: How Improving Your Batting (B.A.T.) Average Will Boost The Effectiveness Of Your Sales Team
Play • 30 min

Learn More Earn More Business Growth Podcast

Host: Brian Webb

Guest: Brad Freyer

Episode 11: How Improving Your Batting (B.A.T.) Average Will Boost The Effectiveness Of Your Sales Team

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TRANSCRIPT: 

Brian Webb:

Hey there, everyone. Welcome to the Learn More Earn More Business Growth Podcast. I'm your host Brian Webb. This podcast is your premier place to learn the frameworks, secrets, and growth hacks to grow and scale your business and revenue faster. Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur or a thriving business owner, this podcast is designed and produced just for you, so you can learn from the best industry experts in the world.

Brian Webb:

I'll bring you exclusive interviews with authors, thought leaders, and successful business titans who share their stories and business journeys, so we can draw insights and learn from their successes and struggles together. As you're working on growing your business and pursuing your dreams, I'll be here to help you make better decisions and avoid costly pitfalls and expensive mistakes along the way. And we'll have some fun in the process. So, let's go ahead and jump into today's episode.

Brian Webb:

Hey everyone. Welcome back. Today, before we jump into the interview, I want to tell you a little bit about Brad Freyer. I've probably known Brad, I'm going to say, north of 15 years, maybe even 16 years. When I started my business, my agency, 17 years or so ago, I came from being a musician and knowing nothing about sales. And I realized I've got to learn something and I've got to do it quick. So I actually spent time and money for about a year to put one of my team members and myself through what was then called the Sandler Sales Institute, now it's called Sandler Training. And Brad Freyer has been coaching and leading sales teams and sales leaders all this time.

Brian Webb:

Brad has trained and coached and consulted hundreds of business owners and presidents, managers, salespeople to basically improve their sales effectiveness and achieve both individual and company goals. And actually, no he's being humble when he says hundreds. It's thousands. If you personally are in sales, or if you have a sales team that works for your business, you're going to love some of the value bombs that Brad drops in today's episode. So we'll jump on in.

Brian Webb:

Hey Brad, thanks for being here today.

Brad Freyer:

I'm excited, man. Been looking forward to this conversation.

Brian Webb:

I have too. I've already told the audience how long I've known you. And I know that today, I know that you've been... you teach and coach across a wide breadth of subjects, but the way that I came to know you is through sales training. And I'm a huge advocate of what you teach at Sandler and the curriculum and the principles. It absolutely was a total game-changer for me 16 years ago. I mean, total game-changer.

Brad Freyer:

That's great.

Brian Webb:

And so I know today, you're going to talk about this thing called the batting average. And BAT I know is an acronym because I've been trained by you. I've known that for 16 years. I know that's an acronym. So why don't you tell the audience what this is? What does B-A-T stand for?

Brad Freyer:

So B-A-T is kind of the foundation from which we build our program and it stands for behavior, attitude, and technique. You've got to have the right attitude. If you wake up with the wrong attitude, the wrong belief systems, the day tends to follow suit. At the same time, if you don't have the right behaviors, and that all starts with having a good goal...

Brian Webb:

Uh-huh (affirmative).

Brad Freyer:

...Right? Knowing where you're going, but most importantly, knowing how you're going to get there so that when you wake up every day, knowing what am I going to do today to be successful.

Brad Freyer:

And then the third piece is the technique. If you're going to do something, you might as well try to do it well. So everything that we do needs to have technique associated with it, not just shooting from the hip and hoping for the best.

Brian Webb:

Absolutely. I know this firsthand, from starting a business about 18, almost 18 years ago. So let's start with behavior. So break this down a little bit for us. Obviously, the word seems self-explanatory, but I know this goes deeper. So break down what you mean when you talk about the behavior and how that impacts our ability to increase sales and be effective.

Brad Freyer:

So behavior starts with identifying what your goals are, right? What is it that you want to achieve in life personally, professionally, all the above? Because if you don't know where you're trying to end up, it's very difficult to make decisions on what you should be doing on a daily, weekly, monthly basis to get there. Right? The best example, the most generic example I give is number one new year's resolution is get in shape or lose weight.

Brian Webb:

Right.

Brad Freyer:

But people don't often have a really clear defined goal for what that is, right? And so when you don't have that clear defined goal, it's difficult to know what should I be doing on a daily basis to hold myself accountable, to achieve that end result.

Brad Freyer:

And so since we're talking about sales, when you look at what the future looks like for you and your family, you talk about your income and how specifically you would spend that money. Right? Am I saving for retirement, a college fund? There's things that we want to purchase. Second homes, fancy cars, whatever it might be. There needs to be a number associated with what am I trying to achieve in my profession.

Brad Freyer:

And then doing the reverse engineering and saying, "Okay. If I need to make $250,000 a year to achieve these goals, how much do I need to sell to be able to earn $250,000 a year?" And then based on how much I need to sell...

Brian Webb:

Right.

Brad Freyer:

...How many deals is that? And based on how many deals, how many proposals, based on my close rate, do I need to be doing to achieve that? And then backing it all the way down to how many outbound calls do I need to make? How many emails do I need to send? How many LinkedIn connections? How many networking events? How many referrals do I need to ask for?

Brad Freyer:

The old adage that if you're not working towards your goals, you're probably working towards someone else's.

Brian Webb:

A hundred percent. Yeah.

Brad Freyer:

And so, yeah. And so you want to wake up every day knowing, okay, today these are the activities that I need to do to take one step closer to that long-term goal I have.

Brian Webb:

Yeah. It's been, again, a long, long time, but back when I was more a student of sales, I heard a presentation that Jeffrey Gitomer was giving.

Brad Freyer:

Sure.

Brian Webb:

And I think he wrote a book which is based on his talk called How to Not Suck at Sales. But anyway, he's talking to the room and he sees all these salespeople in the room and their arms are kind of crossed, and he kind of senses their resistance. Right?

Brad Freyer:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Brian Webb:

And the one thing that I remember him saying, which I think is part of what you're talking about was he said, "Instead of asking the question, how well do you know what I'm saying," he said, "to instead evaluate how well are you doing the things that we're talking about here today?" And that's kind of largely what you're talking about, right? Sometimes we know what to do, but call reluctant sets in. Fear of rejection sets in. Distraction set in. And that, I guess that's really what you're talking about when you're talking about behaviors, right?

Brad Freyer:

Yeah. It's a big piece of it, right? I mean, Simon Sinek starts with why. If you don't know why you're waking up every day and going to work, then it's very easy for those things to creep in and affect your behaviors. The call reluctance and what do we call it? We call it creative avoidance...

Brian Webb:

Creative avoidance.

Brad Freyer:

...Finding creative ways not to do the things that you don't want to do, but those are the things that are going to make you successful.

Brian Webb:

Yeah.

Brad Freyer:

Right. And so waking up every day and knowing what am I doing today to get one step closer to my goals? It's the why that's going to motivate the what you have to do.

Brian Webb:

It does. It informs the what.

Brad Freyer:

Yeah.

Brian Webb:

So attitude, again, these words in and of themselves almost seem self-explanatory, but attitude across several dimensions is very important. So break down how attitude plays out in your batting average.

Brad Freyer:

So attitude is the piece that drives everything, right? It's your belief system. When you're setting goals, a lot of people, when they set goals, they negotiate with themselves. Oh man, I'd love to have that house on cribs, with the six-car garage and infinity pool and blah, blah, blah. But then they start to negotiate with themselves. Oh, you know what? I can never achieve that. That's too much. The only people that have that are athletes and actors. And no, I could never do that. And our belief system is the thing that keeps us from succeeding. How do we feel about ourselves? How do we feel about the market? How do we feel about our products or services? And if you have self-limiting beliefs, if your beliefs are interfering with whether or not you take a risk or whether or not you try something, then all the best doles and plans, aren't going to matter because you're not going to do them because you don't believe that you can't achieve them.

Brian Webb:

Right.

Brad Freyer:

And so you have to start with really creating that vision for yourself, that belief system, that attitude of abundance, that attitude of success, and really making sure that that's the linchpin that starts everything. If you wake up in the morning and you've got a bad attitude, your day is going to follow suit. If you wake up in the morning with a good attitude, knowing that you're going to work towards your goals, you're probably going to be more inspired, more motivated, but also making sure that you're checking your beliefs and your records that play in your head. Right.

Brad Freyer:

A lot of people, I almost said we all, a lot of people grew up in households where you had these messages from your parents, money is the root of all evil. Don't talk to strangers, this, that, and the other. And then all of a sudden you get into sales, and our job is to talk to strangers about money.

Brian Webb:

Right.

Brad Freyer:

All of these, we call it head trash, right?

Brian Webb:

Head trash, yep.

Brad Freyer:

All of this head trash really stands in the way of doing the behaviors. A simple example, if it... I don't believe cold calling is going to work. If I believe, oh cold calling is terrible, I hate doing it. It doesn't work. When I sit down at my desk to begin making cold calls, what am I telling myself? I'm telling myself, this is a waste of time. It's not going to work. And so I'm likely not going to do it. But, if I have a little bit of commitment and a little bit of accountability for myself, maybe I go ahead and do the calls.

Brad Freyer:

But if my belief system is, is that these things don't work. They're pointless. Nobody wants to talk to me, then how are those calls going to sound? They're going to sound like I believe that. And so what do I do? I try to rush to the end. I try to bang out the calls as quickly as possible. If I happen to get somebody on the phone, I'm going to rush through my script because I don't really expect to get results. And so I'm going to do a really poor job at making the call and the results are going to show. And it was going to reinforce my belief system. You all see? I knew it. These don't work.

Brian Webb:

Self-fulfilling prophecy, right?

Brad Freyer:

Yeah, absolutely.

Brian Webb:

I know one of the things that you taught me was it's not just the attitude about the behavior or the outcomes we think we're going to achieve, or those limiting beliefs, but isn't it also the attitude about, it's the attitude about me. It's my attitude about the products or services that we sell and really the attitude about the organization. Right? We'll get back to the show in just a moment. But first, a quick word from our sponsor. Whatbox Digital.

Brian Webb:

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Brian Webb:

And I know one of the things that you taught me was, it's not just the attitude about the behavior or the outcomes we think we're going to achieve, or those limiting beliefs, but isn't it also the attitude about, it's the attitude about me. It's my attitude about the products or services that we sell, and really the attitude about the organization, right?

Brad Freyer:

Oh, Absolutely. I mean, if you don't believe in what you're doing if you don't believe in the product you represent, if you don't believe that your company can fulfill the orders, or that you can deliver on the promises made the customers, then you're going to have that playing in your mind the entire time. I've had multiple conversations with sales teams over the years where they're doubting that the company is doing what they need to be doing to support them, or that the operation side of the business can't deliver on the promises that they're making. And there's a lot of complaining and bitching and moaning. And I've had several situations where I stop in the middle of a training session, I'll say, "okay, everybody take out a piece of paper." So they take out a piece of paper and say, "okay, write your name across the middle of the top." They write their name.

Brad Freyer:

I say, "okay, now write your address." They write their address. And I say, "okay, now put your email address." And now at this time, somebody says, "wait a second. What are we doing?" And I said, "well, we're going to work on our resumes today, instead of worrying about sales training." And they say, "why is that?" I say, "well, because if you don't believe in what you're doing or who you're working for, you need to go find a new job. So if this is going to be a complaint session, let's just go ahead and quit and go find a new job because you're not going to succeed here."

Brian Webb:

Well said, I love it.

Brad Freyer:

Yeah.

Brian Webb:

And the third letter in the acronym, the T stands for technique. Man, talk to us about getting better and honing your craft. Hugely important, right?

Brad Freyer:

Absolutely. I mean, you've mentioned you started your business 18 years ago. Similarly, I started 17 years ago and have been through a couple of businesses over the last 17 years. And the one thing I know is, I don't know everything. And any time that something doesn't go the way I want it to go, or I don't get the results I want to get from it, the first thing I do is I look in the mirror and go, okay, did I do that well? How could I have done it differently? And so I've got mentors. I've got peers that I call and we bounce ideas back and forth. We do roleplays or practices and just try to continue to improve.

Brad Freyer:

But I had a coach... I had a high school basketball coach and he used to tell us, he'd say "guys, there's three ways that you can do something. You can do it. You can do it well. Or you can do it as well as they can possibly be done." And he would tell us "if you're going to step on my court, I expect you to at least try to do it as well as it can possibly be done." And if you're going to put in 40 or 50 hours a week in your job, and you're trying to sell more, every single conversation that you have is important. Every single call that you make is important. Every single qualification conversation, every single proposal that you deliver, everything you do is important. So why not try to do it the absolute best way it can be done? And so that requires planning, right? Pre-call planning. That requires practicing.

Brian Webb:

Absolutely.

Brad Freyer:

That requires learning new skills, learning how to do it better, more effective, more efficient. Getting coaches, getting trainers, getting mentors, but not resting on your laurels or believing that you just have this innate ability to be successful. Too often I talk to salespeople, and you ask successful salespeople, a lot of times, "Hey, what's your process? What do you do?" And they'll give you an answer like, "oh, I just kind of shoot from the hip. I just do what comes natural." But then you start breaking down their success and failures. And all the success that they have, who do you think they give credit to? Themselves. But then whenever you ask them about the failures, or the losses, or the deals that they thought they were going to close, that they didn't, "Hey, what was the problem there?" Who do they blame it on? They blame it on the prospects or the company. They don't ever take credit for, or blame, for coming up short.

Brian Webb:

Absolutely.

Brad Freyer:

And that's a really jaded way to go through life because we can always do better. I mean, the analogy I often use is professional athletes, right? So you got the professional football players. How much time do they spend in action in a game, versus how much time do they spend on the practice field, in the weight room, in the film room, right? Stretching, recuperating?

Brian Webb:

It's a hundred to one ratio, yeah.

Brad Freyer:

Easily a hundred to one. And the question is, why do they do that?

Brian Webb:

Yeah.

Brad Freyer:

Well, they do it because every play lasts about six or seven seconds. And so they have six or seven seconds on every play to do the absolute best that they can do, to showcase their skills, to help their team win. Because if they showcase their skills, if their team wins, they get their job the next year. And they continue to make insane amounts of money. Sales is no different. If you broke down the amount of time that you spend talking to, or in front of a prospect or client a week, I think you'd be surprised at how much actual time is spent talking to prospects or clients every week. It's only a couple of hours. If you work 50 hours a week, maybe four or five hours of that time is actually spent in sales activities with prospects and customers.

Brian Webb:

Very true. Yeah, very true.

Brad Freyer:

And so if you've got that little amount of time to make an impact, shouldn't you be practicing how to make the most out of every moment? Shouldn't you be well-planned and prepared to know how to deal with almost any situation that could be thrown at you?

Brian Webb:

Well, and let me reinforce what you just said too. Mike Tyson once said, "everyone's got a plan till they get punched in the mouth," right?

Brad Freyer:

That's right. Yeah.

Brian Webb:

And I can't tell you the number of times in the past, approaching two decades, where there was a principle that I know, and I know well. I know it so well that I've taught it to my team. And sometimes I've even taught these principles in my own social media marketing. So in other words, I understand it. When I'm not in the ring, on the phone, to use the metaphor, right? Like I know it. And then I'll get into a phone call and I didn't qualify someone. I just failed to do the very things I knew when I'm not in the ring to do it, but I forget. And so I have found that, even once you have mastered, "mastered" this craft, that is sales, that it does leak, it does dilute, especially if you haven't used it in a while. And I find that I've got to go back and review and remind myself, and never get to the where I think I have no room for improvement, right?

Brad Freyer:

100%.

Brian Webb:

Wow.

Brad Freyer:

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, it's muscle memory and unless you're continuing to work those muscles, you have atrophy. You'll lose it.

Brian Webb:

It's true.

Brad Freyer:

And oh, I've done that before. I've asked these questions before, I don't need to preplan. Well, are you sure?

Brian Webb:

Right.

Brad Freyer:

What's the harm in spending a few minutes doing a pre-call plan, and thinking about, what's the kickoff to the conversation going to sound like? What are the key questions you're going to ask? What are the questions that you may get asked that you need to be prepared to answer? I mean, just thinking through those things and in some situations, even picking somebody to practice with.

Brian Webb:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Brad Freyer:

There's been many times. And look, I still sell every day, but I teach leaders of companies and I teach salespeople. And there's still times where I'll sit down and I'll be pre-call planning an opportunity that I have. And I say, "you know what? This could come up and I don't really know how to handle it." Let me reach out to somebody that I have a lot of faith and confidence in their ability. And I'll say "hey, I got this situation coming up. Here's kind of what I'm thinking. How would you look at this? How would you respond? What would you say?" And just get added perspective. Doesn't mean I have to do what they suggest, but it at least gives me some new perspective...

Brian Webb:

Absolutely.

Brad Freyer:

... On how to handle situations and circumstances.

Brian Webb:

Yeah. Well, there, you have it, people. BAT. Behavior, attitude, attitude about yourself, attitude about your products and services, attitude about your organization. Technique. Getting better over and over and over again, which by the way, is a large part of what you do, Brad. So, for our people who might want to get in touch with you, tell our audience, specifically what you do a little bit, and what's the best way of getting in touch with you.

Brad Freyer:

Yeah, that's great. Yeah. So we do sales and leadership training and coaching. So we work with everything, from entrepreneurs to fortune one hundred, and we'd go in and we take a look at where they are as an organization and what they're trying to achieve, and what the gap is in getting there. Specifically on the revenue-generating side of the business. And we help them with their strategy. How are they going to market? How are they attacking the business and how are they going to grow? We talk about it from structure, right? What are the pieces that need to be in place with, for accountability and workflow, etc? We talk about the people. Do they have the right people in the right seats on the bus? And then lastly, we do supplement the skills. We teach technique, we teach methodology, we help build playbooks and cookbooks for prospecting plans.

Brad Freyer:

So that's what we do. I mean, we're obviously not a fit for everybody. And so the first place that we always start, is with an initial conversation. So, people that are interested, I would say, shoot me an email or find me on LinkedIn and shoot me a message and say, "Hey, love to talk about my sales team or my own personal selling skills." And, I usually schedule a 20 or 30-minute first phone call, ask a lot of questions, try to figure out where you feel like the gaps are. If it's something we can potentially help you with, we'll schedule some time to dive deeper. But some of the conversations we have and I say, look, I'm not the guy for it. Or our company is not the company for you. Let me direct you in a different route.

Brian Webb:

Right. Yeah. Well, something that I believe in is, if you have a product or a service that truly adds value and solves problems, I just I'm indoctrinated, it's in my soul that you have a responsibility to go and sell to the world, right? If you've got the cure to cancer, if you're not selling, you're not sharing it, you're not solving someone's problems.

Brad Freyer:

Yeah.

Brian Webb:

So what's the best... So I know if... Thanks for sharing what you do. What's the best, is it your website or an email address or a phone number or all three? What's the best place for someone to reach out to you?

Brad Freyer:

Email address is the best way. I'm often training or running sales calls or having great conversations with awesome guys like you. And so email me is the best thing to do. Shoot me an email at brad.freyer@sandler.com and just say, "Hey, I heard you on the podcast and wanted to talk" and we'll go back and forth, schedule some time, and make it happen.

Brian Webb:

And I want to go ahead and say, and I'm not saying this to be placating at all. I am a huge believer in what you do. If someone isn't a right fit, it might be that they aren't ready, obviously, or it might mean it's not a budget fit. But in terms of teaching a team, a compelling professional way to sell. When people have this bad vision or visual of what salespeople are, it's because of the bad ones. It's because of the unprofessional ones.

Brad Freyer:

Absolutely.

Brian Webb:

Right. They're pushing. And I know at Sandler, you compel. You encourage us to pull people to us, to attract people in. So, that's brad.freyer - That's F-R-E-Y-E-R@sandler.com. Thanks so much for being here today Brad.

Brad Freyer:

Thanks for having me. I've really enjoyed it. The continued success with you and your podcast. Awesome.

Brian Webb:

And we're going to have you back for sure.

Brad Freyer:

Appreciate that.

Brian Webb:

Thanks for joining me today and listening to this episode of the Learn More Earn More Business Growth Podcast. We can be found on all the major platforms like Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Spotify, Pandora, Stitcher, and even Amazon music. I genuinely hope you enjoyed today's episode. And if you did, I'd be honored if you subscribe to the show and leave us a rating and an honest review. I'd love to connect with you on Instagram. You can find me at, @brianwebb and the show sponsor, Whatbox Digital can be found at, as you might guess, @whatboxdigital. You can also find me and Whatbox Digital on Facebook and LinkedIn, with the links in the show notes. This will allow you to stay up to date and never miss out on exciting new announcements, events, special offers, and opportunities. And you'll be in the know when we drop a new episode of the Learn More, Earn More Business Growth Podcast.

Brian Webb:

And if you'd like to send me a DM on Instagram to say hello, or share your thoughts on how we can make this podcast even better for you, I'd love to hear from you. Again, thanks for listening. Let's go and grow together. I'll see you on the next episode.

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