#19: Why Humility Is The Greatest Leadership Quality
Play • 40 min

Learn More Earn More Business Growth Podcast

Host: Brian Webb

Guest: Marvin Epstein

Episode 19: Why Humility Is The Greatest Leadership Quality

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RESOURCES & HELPFUL LINKS

Whatbox Digital

Marvin Epstein Website

TEDx Talk by Marvin Epstein 

Book: Humility Branding by Marvin Epstein

Book: Building a Storybrand by Donald Miller

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TRANSCRIPT: 

Brian Webb:

Hey there, everyone. Welcome to The Learn More Earn More Business Growth podcast. I'm your host, Brian Webb. This podcast is your premier place to learn the frameworks, secrets, and growth hacks to grow and scale your business and revenue faster. Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur or a thriving business owner, this podcast is designed and produced just for you so you can learn from the best industry experts in the world. I'll bring you exclusive interviews with authors, thought leaders, and successful business titans who share their stories and business journeys so we can draw insights and learn from their successes and struggles together. As you're working on growing your business and pursuing your dreams, I'll be here to help you make better decisions and avoid costly pitfalls and expensive mistakes along the way and we'll have some fun in the process. Let's go ahead and jump into today's episode.

Hey everyone, welcome to the show today. C.S. Lewis once said that "Humility is not about thinking less of yourself but about thinking of yourself less." Jesse Jackson once said, "Never, never look down on anybody else unless it's while you're helping them up." And it was just last week that I shared the words of Ernest Hemingway who said, "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man. True nobility is being superior to your former self."

Before we jump into the show today, I want to introduce Marvin Epstein, my good friend, and guest today. I would definitely describe Marvin as a serial entrepreneur. He's the founder of Karma International, which is an organization that I actually had the privilege of being a part of and serving on one of the boards. He's actually done a Ted Talk on why humility is the best quality of leadership. He's done a keynote at Harvard University. He's the author of Humility Branding and he's the monthly cohost of Reinvent Your Life, hosted with Kathi Sharpe. You might recognize some of his clients, the Olympics, NASCAR, World Cup Soccer, just to name a few. And today Marvin shares some really, really interesting perspectives on humility and why it's so important. I think you're really going to enjoy it. Here's my talk with Marvin Epstein.

Hey Marvin, it's so great to have you on the show. We've been talking about this for quite some time so it's great to have you here today.

Marvin Epstein:

Thanks, Brian. I really appreciate the time with you and every time we have a conversation, I continue to learn from you. And so brilliant people inviting me onto their podcasts, their virtual events or even being able to speak on a real stage in front of real people, is just something I get great gratification for. Thank you so much for having me.

Brian Webb:

Well, I would imagine for every one thing that you say that you've learned from me, I would imagine I've learned from you at least a multiple of 10. Certainly, the feeling is mutual, to put it mildly. Let me start with this question, why do you believe in humility? And why do you believe it's the greatest quality? I already agree with you by the way, but why do you agree it's the greatest quality in leadership?

Marvin Epstein:

Well, first of all, I feel like somehow this is going to be a hybrid of a tribute to my mom, but it really comes down to where I started. My mom told me when I was a little kid, "You can reach for the stars, but you got to keep your feet on the ground." And that was just one of her many sayings and my family of what I'll call very principle-driven matriarchs were all about how you treat people. One of my best friends and I call it my one of my best friends, but I know it's going to sound funny when I give you the title is when I was in elementary school, one of my best friends was this janitor.

And the reason for that is because fortunately I was a very bright child and I finished my work early and I was not the most well-behaved child when I didn't have something to keep me busy. When I finished the work, I was constantly disturbing and annoying the other students. Mom met with the teacher and said, "Well, my son's very hyperactive and if he finishes his work early, let him go outside and go run around the track or play." And obviously, that was a time where you could actually do that without a security guard.

I went outside and there was the janitor there. His name was Mr. Rusely and we're kids, we see everybody, everybody's got a smile on their face. And so I see him with this bag over his shoulder and this pick in his hand. And so I came up to him and I just started talking to him and I just thought it was a really cool thing. I'm a 10, 11-year-old kid, so I'm watching him do this. And I'm thinking, wow, he gets to put something in the ground and stick this and then put it in the bag. I thought was a great activity.

I finally asked him, because I asked him questions about him. Where'd you come from? Oh, I grew up in Alabama. My family was this and I was so like mesmerized by what he was doing. I finally said, "Can I do that? And he looks at me and he goes, "Okay." Now I got the bag over my shoulder, I got the pick and basically, I'm doing what he did, but I'm enjoying it so much because I just enjoy the activity. But if anybody would have ever said, "Marvin, the guy's a janitor, the guy is this." I wasn't raised that way.

Why I think humility is the greatest quality and in leadership, which is really, what's so important now more than ever before is because I would have never taken that approach. I would have never learned the story of this gentleman. I would have never got a chance to enjoy the experience. I would have never got a chance to create a new activity that I didn't pay for, I didn't own, I didn't ask for an instruction manual, I didn't have to sit down and have somebody teach it to me and it gave me great joy and great happiness. And I say a lot of times, "Humility can provide you all the other attributes. It can provide you fame. It can provide you power. It can provide you money. Can provide you knowledge and protection and emotional gratification." Which is literally the last element of humility in this category with the janitor. Because literally I went home and told my mom the story. And her first question is, did you have fun? That was our first question. Did you have fun?

And I said, "Yeah, I had a blast." And she said, "Fantastic, she goes, "well maybe you'll finish your work even earlier so you'll spend more time with him." And to me, that's the value, humility drives you to be able to interact, to be able to connect with people. Status is unconditional. And by the way, at one point, because this was going on now for several days, the principal coincidentally walked out of his office one day and saw me doing this and he said, "Excuse me, excuse me." And I said, "Oh," I said, "Principal Joseph," I said, "hi there." I said, "So good to see you," I said, "Mr. Rusely and I are having a great time. By the way, I have a hall pass so I'm excused, just so you know because I finished the work for Mr. Jackson's test already." My biggest concern was making sure that he knew I was allowed to be out of the class not that I was doing the work.

Brian Webb:

You and I over the past few weeks have talked a lot about humility and I think you have a really unique perspective on it. Share your perspective. Share with the audience, how you would explain humility.

Marvin Epstein:

It's a really good question. And one of the things I say often is the best teacher is an unconditional student. And part of what I mean by that is many people have asked me, "How do you view humility?" And each time I answered the question, it made me think organically, they keep asking me the question, which means that I'm really not defining what it is. I took some time and I thought about it and I thought about it more as something tangible, as opposed to just a simple characteristic. When somebody says, they're in love with you or somebody says they're angry with you, those are characteristics. Those are emotions and they come and go. But I thought if I'm going to be the advocate and the champion of making humility something that's so much in the forefront, I have to really own it and find a way to transmit it and translate it and express it.

I love this question now because what I've kind of modeled is instead of humility just being characteristic, I've turned it into a muscle. And I even term it the H muscle. I actually give it a tangible muscle that you can feel and sense. And no different than going to the gym, when you work out and you gain muscle and you feel better and your body exudes the value of what you're doing to work out, humility I look at it as a muscle and just like the exercise in the gym, I have a way of exercising humility every day of my life. And the more I exercise it, the more I own it, the more strength I have, and like I said, the more happiness I have just doing everything else I do.

Brian Webb:

I realize it would be common, it would be kind of a normal thing for me to have a guest on the show and then to say kind things because you're on the show, but I say this with all sincerity, the length of time that I've known you, it's you absolutely exudes humility. You definitely lead by example on this virtue and on this value and this topic. And so I just, I want to applaud you for that. You're known as the branding thought leader. Share with our audience where that comes from.

Marvin Epstein:

I think it again, comes from what I was a kid and I looked at the things I wanted to do to have more enjoyment in my life. And to do that, you have to make something exciting to somebody else. And the good news about being the branding thought leader is you 100% have to have somebody you are working with it, no matter what it is, even if I was the one that created something, you still have to have somebody else to be a part of it. And here's why. The typical brands, Kleenex, Xerox, things like that that have become household names and brands, if you just take that and say, "You have a choice, you can either create a product and you're going to compete against every other Xerox machine or every other tissue brand or you can create a brand that becomes a lifestyle." And once you create a brand that becomes a lifestyle, other people become your champions and the advocates.

Brian Webb:

Yeah, absolutely.

Marvin Epstein:

You're never going to have somebody say, "I bought Marvin's Xerox machine," but you'll say, "I bought a Xerox machine." And if I was the one that created the brand, I would benefit from it. But if somebody says, "Oh, I have a copy of the machine." If their question becomes, oh, is it a Xerox? They've incorporated that into the lifestyle of what that machine should be. From the standpoint of being a branding thought leader, I want everybody to be a brand unto themselves. And what I mean by that is when I introduce myself, I usually introduce myself as an activity. And what I mean by that when somebody says, the typical question is, "What do you do?" My response is, "I will tell you what I'm passionate about and that is through the power of humility and integrity, inspiring greatness and fellow entrepreneurs to make this world a better place."

That's my brand message. Now the question, what I do, you're going to look at my universe now. You know I work with fellow entrepreneurs. You know I work with a certain quality of fellow entrepreneurs, character-driven that is going to have integrity and passion. I want them to be honorable. I want them to understand the importance of how they have to be authentic in the world and they need to be passionate about what they're doing. They need to care about it. It needs to be exciting. Need to wake up in the morning and scream and yell and love what they're doing. And I want them to make the world a better place. Now, if somebody says, "Well, that doesn't tell me anything." My response would be is, "Well then, tell me, what's your brand? How do you present yourself?"

Brian Webb:

I saw just a short piece of an interview where I think it was John Acuff, I've read a couple of his books and he was hanging out with John Maxwell and I've certainly read many of John's books. And he asked John, John Acuff asks John Maxwell, "What gets you up in the morning? Is it discipline?" And I have not forgotten Maxwell's response, he says, "No, it's not discipline," he said, "it's anticipation." He said, "I know that today I might have an opportunity to have a huge impact in someone's life and just the anticipation of that," he says, "what gets me up in the morning. It's not discipline." I'm guessing you'd resonate with that, right?

Marvin Epstein:

Oh, absolutely. And the other thing I would say about being a branding thought leader and you, Brian Webb, defining your brand, when you define your brand, other people edify you. Because when I know about Brian, if I'm going to talk about Brian's company, you're now going to have an energetic competition with whoever I'm translating that message to. If I tell him what your company does, is a digital marketing company, a media company and all the success you've had and the multimillion-dollar clients that you've now signed up and executed and all your success all this time, their brain is, who else do I know that does this? Do I need this? They're going to go into the mechanical.

But if I say it a different way and say, "It's interesting, you talk about media and digital marketing. I have to tell you as much as I care about the actual success of that element the one thing that I'm really passionate about and I've realized the value of is the person behind the company and if you really want digital marketing to be authentic for you, I have a friend of mine. His name is Brian Webb. The guy is integrity plus, you will always get the truth from him. My recommendation is, if you want the truth if you want authenticity and you want a very efficient way and an effective way to make a decision, whether or not it's him or anybody else, you're going to have a great time. And I would tell you to carve out 15 minutes, but obviously, the decision is yours."

Brian Webb:

Yeah. Wow. Well one, thank you for your kind words. I know that you attribute much of your success to being a code cracker. Talk to us about that. I want to hear more about that.

Marvin Epstein:

I love that. And I think part of that has to do with what I call being a little bit of a lazy thinker. And what I mean by that is, is if somebody tells me something and the story is either convoluted or the mechanics don't make sense or I truly don't understand the industry they're talking about, I have a tendency to tune out. And some people that may have more discipline or more determination or whatever the positive element characteristic is to stay in the fight, so to speak, to learn what they're saying, I give them a lot of credit. But knowing where my strengths are and knowing where the things are that I need to improve on, I looked at things and said, "Okay, how do I make something a little more simple? And also something that's easy for me to create as a trigger?"

And that's why I call it a code cracker. And one of the examples I use is, and during the COVID world, this was much more prominent in the sense that everybody was doing everything virtually. To a certain extent, you couldn't sit in a meeting. There was no energy contact. It could have been eye contact in Zoom calls and whatever but there was no energy contact. What was important to me and it's been important to me for a long time, but I had to understand what it is that triggered my relationship energetically to people like yourself and other people that I care about and have tremendous respect for. And I just, I made some notes and I looked at kind of the universe of the people that I spend time with. And I said, "What do they have in common?"

And one of the things I can tell your audience is, I was in the restaurant industry for many years and I know that's not the subject, but there's a reason why I think it's important. In the restaurant industry at the end of every month, you do a physical inventory of your food and your liquor. And I thought about this at one point. And I thought about, and I made a list of the people that I spend time with. And you've heard the expression, your success is associated with the five people that you spend the most time with. I made this list and I looked at what do they have in common? And I looked at the common characteristic and one of them is I really care about these people and I respect them highly. And several people of them, I love.

And I thought if I change the script and say, "Instead of meeting the people, what if I made this the filter of why I want to spend time with these people?" And so in this code-cracker mode, I created what I call the LCR method, which is love, care, and respect.

Brian Webb:

Love it. Yeah.

Marvin Epstein:

If I spend time with someone, it's got to have it, I've got to check at least two out of the three boxes. And for sure, care and respect are probably the ones that are going to be the most common, because obviously love is kind of a different element, but it doesn't mean to say you can't love someone as you get to know them because of where their heart is and how their heart and your heart fit. But for sure, care and respect.

In this point in time where everybody has realized how much value time has when you can't go anyplace, I want to spend time with the people that I love, care and respect. And like I said, at least two out of those three. If I'm on a call with somebody or I'm on a virtual experience and somebody is sharing information, if I get the heebie-jeebies and it doesn't feel right and I don't feel they're being authentic, I feel they're selling, I feel they're pushing, I feel they're promoting. But that's okay if they can own that space.

Somebody says I'm an expert in digital marketing. Fantastic. I would love to know what is your key ingredient to being such an expert? How do you define yourself? And I'm going to go through the mechanical. If I feel I'm not being authentic, then care and respect just went out the window. Thank you very much for your time, John Smith. I appreciate it. It sounds like you've created your own success and I hope you're successful in the future. And I think at this point in time, we don't really have a way to fit and work together, but I want to be respectful of your time as well as mine. I think unless you have any other questions for me, I think we're finished.

Brian Webb:

Yeah. Something you've taught me or you've shared with me is that some people are plan people, some people are journey people. Explain to our audience what your philosophy is on the journey.

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Something you've taught me or you've shared with me is that some people are plan people, some people are journey people. Explain to our audience what your philosophy is on the journey.

Marvin Epstein:

The audience is sensing a theme here where when you're young and impressionable, and I'm sure your audience who's very sophisticated and successful in their own right if they haven't done the exercise, I'm sure many have, but if they haven't and you play the game of go back to when you were a child, what did you think about? What were you passionate about? What did you care about? But the question is when you answer that question, how creative were you of finding how to execute that? And that comes back to the journey because you can plan something and you can design it and you can put it on paper but you need something to spark you picking up the paper and the pen or the PowerPoint presentation or whatever it is to get started.

And to me, before the plan, there has to be a journey. Again, hearkening back to my childhood, there was a girl in my class and I was 11 years old and I had a paper route and so every day, in the afternoon, there was no way that I could spend any time with her. The journey became, how do I get to spend time with this person? That's my goal. There's no plan here. I just have to know that's what I want to do. And now energetically I'm going to figure it out. One of my friends comes to me and tells me how he wanted to buy something, but he couldn't afford it and already it triggered me. I'm like, wait a minute. This somebody that wants money, this is somebody that could be an access point. Hey, I got an idea, Danny, how'd you like to do my paper out a couple of days a week, and at the end of the month, I'll share the proceeds with you.

That was the journey at a young age and every journey that I've taken, that I've really created what I would say measurable success has always been a journey. When I was in the video production world and I created a closed-circuit television network for NASCAR if somebody would've said, "Hey, Marvin, can you go head to head and create a proposal?" For at that time the head of CBS Sports, Neal Pilson. And he had a company that did exactly what we did and the only way that I was going to be successful is energetically because I can't compete with his success. The guy was a president of a major sports organization and he had endless resources and endless access and he knew these guys for years. But it was a business relationship. I had to create an energy. I had to create an access point and without going into all the details, that was the journey because I was now passionate about it.

Brian, and when we talk about the journey, it's funny when I did a talk at Pepperdine and then a good friend of mine, Dan Fleischmann, who has done tremendous things in his career and continues to, he's somebody that actually referred me to the person at Harvard, where he actually spoke the year before. And this person who was running the organization interviewed me, decided that I would be a good speaker. And the next question I asked is, "Do you need any other speakers?" And Dolly is her name. Dolly said, "Oh, well yeah, that's great. Do you have any ideas?" And one of the people I recommended was one of my good friends, also another fellow Karma member, Shervin Roohparvar, who a lot of your audience may know. He's actually a celebrity, is one of the stars of Sunset but he's a good friend and when I told them about the opportunity, he then followed up, they approved him, he got to speak.

And then what happened was I told him, I said, "It's Mother's Day weekend. I'm going to bring my mom." And we ended up talking 10 minutes later, he calls me back and tells me he's bringing his mom too. It's the value of now the experience, like I said, it's about me sharing my experience for more than me to win. And everybody uses the expression they've been blessed, but I use the word very, very specifically when I say I've been blessed because these things have to come to me, I can't find them.

And another good example is, one of our other fellow Karma members is Kathi Sharpe. Kathi wrote a book called Reinvent Your Life. She rolled it out right before COVID. Now fortunately Kathy has a PR and marketing company and so for her, she had a lot more tools to do this, even in lockdown, but we've known each other for many years. She created a show called the Reinvention Exchange, that's weekly show. And all I wanted to do was support her so I came on the show as a guest and I listened and fortunately, I got to ask a few questions. One of her guests really liked my questions and Kathi blurted out, "Marvin, you'd be a great cohost." And as soon as she said that, I said, "I'm in, let's do this." All of a sudden, now I'm a monthly cohost on her show. And she's had some fabulous entrepreneurs and people that I care about also.

Another one of my good friends and fellow Karma member, I think you can see kind of the theme of where a Karma member comes from, is a gentleman named Rob Angel. And you may not know his name, but you definitely know the game he invented, it's called Pictionary.

Brian Webb:

Wow. Goodness, grace.

Marvin Epstein:

And here's a guy that obviously was tremendously successful. Oh and by the way, he also just now finished a book called Game Changer. I recommend that as a great read also. And the story with him is he was introduced through a mutual friend. We were talking about some of the things I was doing in the hospitality space and he became one of my investors. Now here's the best part of the story. Unfortunately, the investment did not get capitalized, but because I focused on building the relationship and it wasn't transactional, he and I have a relationship until this day, even to the point that we just saw each other a couple of weeks ago.

Brian Webb:

I've read Donald Miller's book, Building a StoryBrand, multiple times, and not only have I read it, I've studied it. I've journaled it. We've actually, we teach clients that framework, not for the sake of teaching it as that's the thing that we sell. But when you're writing copy, when you're doing marketing, there's a right way to connect with your audience. And one of the principles, the guiding principles if you will, that Don teaches. And this is based off of like old, old, old successful storytelling. But the one thing that he teaches is that your customer, your audience, your colleagues want to be the hero and so what he advocates is that it's our role to be the guide. Don't be the hero. Don't you be the hero? You be the guide, we are the guide, and let our audience be the hero. And that just seems like that really using different words, reinforces and amplifies what you've been sharing with us today. Talk to us about relationships not being transactional. I want you to share that with the audience today.

Marvin Epstein:

I think that's a lesson that I continue to learn every day. I would say the larger the transaction, the more important the relationship, but even what anybody qualifies as larger or smaller, I would say the relationship is important to me, even so much that if I go to Walgreens and get something and I see the person's name badge, I just say, "Thank you, Josephine. Thank you, Javier. Thank you, Stephanie."

Brian Webb:

I'm the same.

Marvin Epstein:

Because I see their name.

Brian Webb:

Yeah. Yeah. I'm the same.

Marvin Epstein:

Because sure, I bought what I bought. It wasn't changing the price. It wasn't doing anything other than making another connection. And I have no idea where that connection will go. But I tell this story in my book about a story about a parking attendant and without going into that chapter, but it talks about the fact that when you use the word in air quotes, parking attendant, I don't know how many people in your audience are thinking, how important can a parking attendant be? Well, when you get to that chapter, you'll see what I'm saying. But you find out that two things happen when you're relationship-driven. One is you like yourself more.

Brian Webb:

Oh yeah.

Marvin Epstein:

Because you care about everything you're doing because you're building a relationship. And two, human nature allows you to find solutions creatively and rewards organically that would not happen. And so to use something that's not in my book because not everybody has read it, I'm sure, but I know in real life, if you go into a store and you thank the person at Walgreens for helping you, let's say you come in the store and you're rushed and you got to find something right away because either the Uber is waiting outside or you got to get to an amazing event and you forgot to get somebody a card and you need help really quick or you have a present that you need.

And look, Walgreens is a big store. There's a lot of aisles, but you know exactly what you need and it's something very specific. All of a sudden you see Stephanie or Javier or whoever it is, that you recognize. And it's like, "Oh Javier, can you do me a favor? I know you're right in the middle of this, it's really important to me if you can help me." The odds of them helping you now are going to be much greater than, "Excuse me, I see you work here. Can you help me with something?"

Brian Webb:

100%.

Marvin Epstein:

What have you done? You've literally owned a relationship that has given you a value that all you did was build value organically. You didn't have to do anything other than communicate. And by that communication, you've now received a reward that you never knew you needed. But the good news is you had that. That was in your little bag of arrows. It was one of the arrows that you could shoot because you literally built a relationship. And if somebody who says, "Well, I thought about the storekeeper, but what about the manager?" Do you really need to have the manager help you? Or do you just need somebody that cares enough to help you to get it done? Because if you want to stop and ask the storekeeper to get you the manager, your Uber may leave or you may miss your appointment. Because you've created that relationship.

Now the inverse is I go to the store all the time, I buy something all the time. It's all transactional. I don't need to talk to people. I can say, "Thank you," I could be cordial, but why would I want to call them by name? Why do I need to say anything more? I'm a busy person. I have a lot to do. It's all transactional. And the bigger the transaction, and here's what I want your audience to get as the takeaway, the bigger the transaction, the more human nature will do things organically. And what I mean by that is the bigger the transaction, the more you're going to focus on who you want to benefit from it. And the more you focus on who you want to benefit from it, it's usually going to be people you have a relationship with.

Even if you're about getting the guy at Goldman Sachs to buy you a stock or getting your real estate broker to buy you a house or going to the car dealership to buy you a car, if it's only transactional, if what you wanted to accomplish wasn't accomplished, you have to do two things. One, you have to find another person to service to you. And two, you have to either decide for yourself or they've decided on the other side whether or not you guys are going to communicate anymore. And the hardest thing in anybody's industry and I love the fact that your podcast is called Learn and Earn is what is the hardest thing in any industry? It's customer acquisition.

Brian Webb:

Yeah, absolutely.

Marvin Epstein:

Literally, why would you want to start at the starting line every single time? If you build the relationship, you're always going to start a little ahead of the transaction.

Brian Webb:

I've been told, it's been my experience actually that 10 years from now, 15 years from now, 20 years from now, from the time someone's had their last interaction with you, they'll forget a lot of what you did or didn't do. They'll forget what you said or didn't say, but they'll never, ever, ever forget how you made them feel. And so when you're talking about this virtue, this muscle of humility, just being authentic with people, treating everyone as though they're all on the same plane, whether they can put a million dollars in your pocket or do nothing for you at all, just showing up with authenticity, showing up and just giving people the respect that they so want and desire. And just, I think it's an amazing principle and I appreciate you sharing that with us today. Ladies and gentlemen, he is Marvin Epstein. Marvin one, we're going to absolutely put the link to your Ted Talk.

Marvin Epstein:

Oh, thanks.

Brian Webb:

Oh, absolutely we'll get that in the show notes because I want everyone to go see it. And if you haven't already people, go get his book, Humility Branding. I know you can at least get that on Amazon and is that also in bookstores, Marvin?

Marvin Epstein:

We're working on it. There's a guy named Brian Webb that I'm now in collaboration with.

Brian Webb:

Yeah, that's true.

Marvin Epstein:

Tune in soon.

Brian Webb:

Tune in, tune in. And by the way, audiobook, I've already been talking to you, we've got to get Marvin to do the audiobook. But for those that want to engage with you, follow you, connect with you, interact with your business, tell the world, tell our audience how they can best get in touch with you, follow with you and learn more about how you can help them.

Marvin Epstein:

Yeah, fantastic. And by the way, I love your quote, that's actually a quote from Maya Angelou, so it's beautiful because the absolute expression is they'll always remember how you made them feel. It's so perfect. It's the energy and a great way to summarize our podcast overall. Thank you for sharing that. That was beautiful.

The easiest way is they can go to marv360.com, M-A-R-V-3-6-0.com, which is my contact page. They'll see my bio, they'll see the other businesses that I'm involved in and business interest and some of the other things I'm doing socially, philanthropically, all of the above. And they can also go to my website, marvinepstein.com and that'll give them obviously a higher-level understanding, a little more information than just a thumbnail or a one-pager. And either way, I look forward to connecting to your audience. I truly enjoy being of service.

Brian Webb:

Oh, I know.

Marvin Epstein:

That is emotional gratification to me. If anybody in your audience is thinking, and I think I'm talking to contemporaries so I don't think any of them are too shy to reach out to anybody. But if for some reason, somebody is thinking in their head, I'm not sure what I want to stay or why I want to talk to this person. If any of your audience has anything that they want to share with me, any questions, just some thoughts of anything we've talked about, please, I highly, highly not only encourage them, but I look forward to it because obviously, I value the relationship that Brian, that you and I have created and that's the connection to your audience. And I know the wonderful connection that we've made so I can't wait to meet some of your audience.

Brian Webb:

And audience, I can absolutely vouch for the authenticity of what Marvin just said. Definitely connect with him, reach out to him. Marvin, thanks for being on the show today. I definitely want to have you back in the future so I'm going to stake that claim right now and thank you for the positive impact that you've already had on my life and for the positive impact that you're making in the world. Thanks.

Marvin Epstein:

Brian, thanks so much. And is it okay if I give your audience a free gift?

Brian Webb:

You absolutely can.

Marvin Epstein:

Okay. The one thing I would say is that when they go to marv360.com, they'll see you button there and it says, "Learn and Earn, Brian Webb podcast free gift." And the free gift is 10 Essential Tips to Maximize Your Investor Relationship.

Brian Webb:

Very good. Wow. Okay, thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. That's awesome. So again.

Marvin Epstein:

I always liked to come somewhat with something in my hand.

Brian Webb:

Yeah, no, no, no. Well, you're giving something away from your hand is what you're doing. Again, thanks for being here today, Marvin.

Marvin Epstein:

Thanks so much, Brian. I appreciate it. Enjoy, enjoy. And everybody remember, the most important thing is humility is the greatest quality and leadership. It gives you fame, power, knowledge, emotional gratification, and unconditional happiness.

Brian Webb:

Thanks for joining me today and listening to this episode of The Learn More Earn More Business Growth podcast. We can be found on all the major platforms like Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Spotify, Pandora, Stitcher, and even Amazon Music. I genuinely hope you enjoyed today's episode and if you did, I'd be honored if you'd subscribe to the show and leave us a rating and an honest review. I'd love to connect with you on Instagram. You can find me at, @brianwebb and the show sponsor, Whatbox Digital can be found at, as you might guess, @whatboxdigital. You can also find me and Whatbox digital on Facebook and LinkedIn with the links in the show notes. This will allow you to stay up to date and never miss out on exciting new announcements, events, special offers, and opportunities and you'll be in the know when we drop a new episode of The Learn More Earn More Business Growth podcast. And if you'd like to send me a DM on Instagram to say hello or share your thoughts on how we can make this podcast even better for you, I'd love to hear from you.

Again, thanks for listening. Let's go and grow together. I'll see you on the next episode.

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