The Courageous Pastors Podcast
Shawn Lovejoy
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The Courageous Pastors Podcast provides church + ministry leaders with the tools to recapture or keep momentum by addressing the place, the people, and the processes needed to maintain forward movement through our Gears of Growth Framework (Culture, Team, Systems).
Available episodes
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Oct 27, 2022
How and why to work on your culture (w/ Chris Bell)
This week Shawn steps back to the mic to interview one of his first coaching clients ever, Chris Bell.
Chris leads 3 Circle Church, a five campus church in South Alabama.
Shawn and Chris talk about growing in healthy ways. Growth doesn’t always equal health. Bad things— like weeds— can grow quickly.
Rather than focusing on the growth, we want to look at the soil— the culture.
As the church grows, such that you can no longer be in every room, the culture remains. Therefore, it’s essential that you work on the culture.
In reality, every church and organization already has a culture. This leads us to questions such as—
* Is the culture we have a culture we actually want?
* Have we created this culture, or did it just “happen” by accident?
* Are there things in our culture we need to change?
Furthermore, Chris talks about what to do when you drift from the culture you want— and how even those moments can become teaching opportunities for your team.
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3 Circle Church = https://www.3circlechurch.com
Pastor Chris on Instagram = https://www.instagram.com/pastorchrisbell/
Book a free Strategy Session = www.CourageousPastors.com/strategy
See other posts on our site about culture: https://www.courageouspastors.com/blog?tag=%2Aculture
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Oct 13, 2022
Your marriage can tell a story bigger than you (Jeremy & Corrie Isaacs)
In this episode, JC interviews his very best friend (and his wife’s bestie, as well), Jeremy and Corrie Isaacs.
Jeremy and Corrie share a unique burden to minister marriages. They come from two different backgrounds.
Jeremy’s parents had a solid marriage, but he never saw them “live out” the conflict— nor was he taught how to manage it.
Corrie was raised by a single mom— with no marriage example to follow (her mother was married four times). However, she saw incredible marriages before her at church… and realized Jesus could restore everything.
The two of them believe that God not only CAN redeem your marriage, but can also enable your marriage to tell a bigger story than you imagine possible.
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See Jeremy’s coaching page at Courageous Pastors: https://www.courageouspastors.com/jeremy
Find Generations Church online: https://www.g.church/
To book a Strategy Session go to www.CourageousPastors.com/strategy
To learn more about building your killer team, grab your free book at www.KillerTeamBook.org
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Sep 29, 2022
Don't underestimate where you are now (w/ Kyle Jackson)
Kyle Jackson brings a unique perspective to the Courageous Pastors Podcast. Usually, with speak senior leaders, but Kyle brings his experience as a campus pastor and let us know things like:
* How to support the vision of the leader you’re following, as well as
* How to lead well when you’re not in charge
He’s actually be on staff with his wife, too, for 13 of the 15 years he’s been in ministry. His wife is a worship leader where he serves.
Kyle is the son of an evangelist. He walked away from church from 18-25, but reconnected when he attended a mobile church— in a high school. After about 13 weeks of standing “in row 10, with his arms crossed,” he began connecting… and continued taking next steps.
He became a teaching pastor. Then a coach. And then continued growing.
Through some relationships, he transitioned to becoming a campus pastor with Church of the Highlands, to launch the first “out of the state” campus in Columbus, Georgia. They launched in August 2019— and closed 6 months later (for Covid). Then, re-launched when everything opened up again.
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To book a Strategy Session go to www.CourageousPastors.com/strategy
To learn more about building your killer team, grab your free book at www.KillerTeamBook.org
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Aug 25, 2022
How to lead like a boss when you’re not the lead guy (w/ Kevin Lloyd)
In this episode, Kevin and JC discuss Kevin’s journey from “his call” to pastoring to serving as an executive pastor— and how he knew he didn’t want to be the “lead guy” at the church but wanted to serve as the XP.
It’s a good word. Most staff members are not going to serve as the senior pastor. Most will be the number 2, number 3, or something else.
Kevin and JC talk about several important factors:
⭐️ the importance of execution— of getting things done.
Specifically, the discuss vision and trust, and identify how to know when you move forward without waiting for instruction as well as how to know when to ask permission.
⭐️ the importance of EQ as opposed to IQ.
Most of the time, leaders aren’t fired (or hired) because of their Intelligence Quotient but because of their Emotional Quotient— of their ability to relate to people.
⭐️ the importance of the team.
We function better together. Face it, leadership— at ANY level— is lonely.
Sometimes that’s a function of leadership— it CAN be lonely at the top. But we make it lonelier than it has to be.
⭐️ the importance of decision-making.
Sometimes you need to be attached to the outcome. Many times you don’t need to be. In fact, most to the time you don’t.
⭐️ the importance of honor.
Kevin talks about “taking the bullet” when needed— and of deferring to the mission and the people who are part of it.
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Links for this show—
Join us for Building a Killer Team Live— www.KillerTeam.live
Claim your free Killer Team Book— www.KillerTeamBook.org
Kevin’s page on the CourageousPastors.com site = www.CourageousPastors.com/kevin
On Instagram, @KevinLloydLive
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Aug 11, 2022
What we’ve learned from 24 leaders of various ages and different races all serving in scattered places
In this talk we divide the content from the past 23 talks into 7 “buckets,” that is, 7 repeating themes we saw.
#1 = Be you (not a knock-off of some other leader).
#2 = Take care of you. You can’t pour from an empty cup, serve from dry well, run on an empty tank… you get the idea.
#3 = Race relations are tough— and are worth the work. And they’re tough. And they’re worth the work. And tough. And worth it. And they are part of bringing the presence of the Kingdom.
#4 = The pandemic happened. Regardless of where you stand politically or medically or on any other issue, culture shifted and that radically changed how we do church.
#5 = One of the changes is that church moved out of the building. For sure, we don’t want to stay out of the four walls— as if it’s an either-or decision. We want to do both, gather and scatter.
#6 = Look back to the past— not to see failures and frustrations but to see the faithfulness of God. When we see our history with Him, and where He’s brought us, we gain confidence to keep stepping forward.
#7 = Coach-ability. It matters. Never underestimate the value of an outside voice to speak into your life and give you perspective, unleash new potential, and push you beyond what you dreamed possible.
Finally, tie it all together…
A lot of people think the church is in trouble, that it’s going to disappear. Don’t believe it.
J.I. Packer was asked years ago, “Who’s the best preacher?” He replied, “You don’t know him.” When pushed, he replied that not even he knew him because God has people all over, everywhere— just like Elijah didn’t realize there were 7,000 more besides him… that is true today.
Join a tribe. We’d love to have you.
Learn more at www.CourageousPastors.com/blog/024
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Jun 23, 2022
How to take the baton from a seasoned leader (so you can later hand if off to someone else) (with Clay Smith)
Clay Smith took over Johnson Ferry Baptist Church just before the pandemic hit. He was 40 at the time, following a leader who planted the church and had been there since he was 2.
Now 43, Clay looks back and shares some of the lessons he’s learned about following a legacy leader.
“First, you are an interim,” he says, “We are all coming and going.”
That is, you might be at your church for 3 months, for 3 years, or for 30 like Clay’s predecessor… but your job is temporary.
That said, Clay highlights five lessons he’s learned— and is still learning.
“We’re all learning,” he reminds us.
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Jun 9, 2022
A healthy you creates a healthier org (w/ Jonathan Moore)
Jonathan Moore is the Founding and senior pastor of NorthRock Church in San Antonio. He met Shawn at the Velocity Conference, over a decade ago, when Shawn was in Atlanta.
NorthRock launched a campus during the middle of the pandemic AND relaunched second campus in a different spot (this campus was in a school, which could no longer be used).
Right now, Jonathan is telling leaders to take care of themselves.
“Self-care has always been important,” he suggests, “but the previous two years have highlighted why we need to pay attention to it.”
As he works to “rebuild the church” he’s also working on rebuilding himself.
This “rebuilding you” occurs when you start scheduling you first— your time alone with the Lord, your time to exercise, your time to connect with your spouse. A healthy you is a better you and can more readily lead the church forward in healthy ways.
“This also includes,” Jonathan adds, “living with healthy rhythms…”
Those rhythms include things like—
* Daily diversions (moving away from the grind of the urgent and into the un-rush of the important)
* Weekly withdrawals (Sabbath, a true day off)
* Quarterly quarantines (these may be different, depending on where you are— but certain season deplete us and necessitate rest)
* Annual abandonments (taking a vacation where you completely check out)
Jonathan encourages leaders to be intentional about their time off. “Work on you while you’re off,” he says. “Use that time to do something that builds you.”
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Personal Gears of Growth = assess the five areas where we all need to grow, find the weak point, and gain momentum by starting there: https://www.courageouspastors.com/offers/PzhK2GiJ
Connect with Jonathan online: @JonathanDMoore
NorthRock Church, San Antonio = https://www.northrocksa.com
Schedule a free strategy session at www.CourageousPastors.com/strategy
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May 26, 2022
Welcome to our tribe (w/ JC Worley)
JC Worley leads Go Church in South Atlanta. He and his wife, Kimberly, lead Go Church.
Go Church was the host location for the first-ever Courageous Pastors Gathering, and— more relevantly to this talk— JC is taking a more proactive role with CourageousPastors.com.
From 2006 until 2013, JC was the youth pastor at Go Church, for his father-in-law. He left to plant a church in the Metro D.C., area, with his father-in-law’s blessing.
They launched— and led— the church for 4 years.
His father-in-law approached him about retiring and taking over his home church at that point.
After much prayer— and wise counsel— JC and his wife relocated BACK to Atlanta, transitioning the Maryland location into a satellite.
This year, at Easter, Go Church launched a 3rd campus in the Atlanta area.
Just before the pandemic, Go Church was— under JC’s leadership— one of Outreach Magazine’s Top 100 / fastest-growing churches.
A former client himself, JC is a coach on the team. And, he’ll begin hosting the Courageous Pastors podcast.
His believes Courage to Lead provides two things:
#1 = Quality. It’s been tested over-and-over, and has a developed framework. So, there’s consistency.
#2 = Content. The system includes information which pastors can use and apply in their unique context— immediately.
These two factors create a consistent experience for others…
… and it provides an on-ramp to help others apply the content and receive incredible results.
Feel alone?
You don't need to-- join the tribe.
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Schedule a Strategy Session at www.CourageousPastors.com/strategy
Learn more about Go Church at https://www.mygochurch.com/
Follow JC on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/jcworley/
Register for The Gathering videos at www.CourageousPastors.com/gathering
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May 12, 2022
Increase your “care equity” (w/ Michael Turner)
Michael Turner is the founding and lead pastor of Turning Point Church in McDonough, GA— south of Atlanta. The church turned 19 in March 2022.
Recently, Michael gifted everyone on his staff with a Fitbit— as part of a 30-day fitness challenge. They decided to evaluate three areas:
* Steps per day
* Weekly weight loss
* Sleep hours per night
This quick accountability— especially the “sleep part”— highlighted what was truly happening with everyone’s health. And, as Michael reminds us, the challenge connects us to the idea that we’re about TOTAL HEALTH and wellbeing, not just spiritual health.
Furthermore, this step was important because it helped him lead his team towards PERSONAL development as well as the PROFESSIONAL development we usually focus upon.
Lately, Michael actually HAS been working on some of the PROFESSIONAL things, though…
For instance, his church has focused on reclaiming the “in person” gatherings.
Sure, there are a lot of empty chairs.
(The truth is that, post-Covid, most churches have MANY empty chairs.)
“But preaching to SOME empty chairs,” Michael says, “is much better than preaching to ONLY empty chairs and a camera.”
As they reclaim the gatherings, they’re adjusting their metrics as well.
“Attendance isn’t the only indicator,” he says. “There’s so much more… like engagement. And connection.”
They’re also evaluating things like finances and relationships and other items we may not have measured in the past.
Michael embraces the perspective-shift. His church has experienced seasons of fast-growth. And, when they did, he learned that EVERYTHING— including unhealth— replicates quickly.
That is, unhealthy culture multiplies.
Hidden assumptions, underneath-the-surface hurts, and other doubts replicate quickly, as well…
“You can’t outgrow unhealth,” he says. “At some point you must deal with the issues.”
He’s learned to celebrate those moments of fast growth, but to pay attention to the things that mater even more— like the pulse of his staff, as well as their personal lives.
“We’ve got to care about them,” he says, “more than we care about growth.”
During the pandemic, he learned to focus even more on caring for people— not just his team but others in his church, too.
“We began reaching out and actually CALLING people on the telephone,” he says.
Then— “We also sent hand-written birthday cards. And DoorDash gifts…”
The connections multiplied as they discovered new ways to connect and reconnect.
“We even dropped by people’s homes and visited them,” he offers. “Everyone was always so excited to see us.”
He refers to all of this as “Care Equity,” and suggest it’s one of the most important metrics you have.
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Shawn’s book, Building a Killer Team Without Killing Yourself or Your Team: www.KillerTeamCoaching.com
Personal Gears of Growth = take the assessment here: https://www.courageouspastors.com/offers/PzhK2GiJ/checkout
Access the free Killer Teams Crash Course at www.CourageousPastors.com/cc
Register for a free Strategy Session at www.CourageousPastors.com/strategy
Learn more about Michael’s church at https://turningpointchurch.tv
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Apr 28, 2022
Crisis creates space where we see what really matters (w/ Brandon Bilbo)
When you meet Brandon Bilboa two things strike you:
* He’s a bit country, and
* He’s a brilliant leader
Back in 2014 Brandon was a financial advisor, managing a $30MM portfolio. Then he felt called to plant Cross Church in Houma— 20 miles south of New Orleans.
For the first 18 months, he pulled double-duty, pastoring during the nights and weekends while working full-time during the normal 9-5 workweek.
In its first 6 years, the church grew to 1,200 in attendance.
Recently, Brandon’s area was hit by Hurricane Ida— a high-level hurricane that produced flooding as far away as New York City. The wind was so strong in “blew out” the wind gauges.
As Brandon says, “It was catastrophic. Everyone was touched by the trauma.”
The day after the storm, Brandon saw his church in action. Turns out, they could move faster than the government because they weren’t hamstrung by bureaucracies and processes.
And, very quickly, churches began working TOGETHER to help people in need.
Brandon makes an observation, “Pastors in the US pull together when there’s a disaster. In other nations where I’ve been on mission trips, they pull together all the time. That’s just how they do it.”
He encourages us to make those connections NOW— knowing that, at some point, troubles are coming.
Develop the relationships, nurture them… and enjoy them.
Eventually, we will need them in other ways.
The recent storms provided a platform for the church to reach everyone, everywhere. Literally.
“Everyone had some degree of damage,” he says, “and so everyone was reachable in some way.”
One day, in a distribution line, 79 people gave their lives to Jesus. Even though there was no sermon. Even though there was no altar call.
On another day, they asked people who came for help if they wanted prayer. Not a single person turned them down.
An elderly woman had multiple trees down in her yard. She’d just survived Covid and was now devastated by the disaster. Whereas tree companies price-gouged, volunteers from the church arrived at her home and helped her free of charge. She began weeping. It was the tangible love of Christ in action.
“Problems become our opportunity, our chance, to love people,” Brandon reminds us. “That is, if we can keep our poise when those things happen.
We still preach the same message we were preaching 2 years ago. But, in some way, it’s a bit different. It’s less about “come and see” and more about “we’re coming to you.”
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The Killer Teams Crash Course = www.CourageousPastors.com/cc
Schedule a free Strategy Session:
Brandon’s Church, Cross Church = https://crosschurchhouma.com and https://www.facebook.com/crosschurchhouma
Brandon is a coach with CourageousPastors.com = https://www.courageouspastors.com/brandon
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Apr 7, 2022
Focus on where you are, not where you were (w/ Adam Weber)
Adam Weber shares words of wisdom with us in this episode of The Courageous Pastors Podcast.
“Control what you can control,” he says, “and trust God with the rest.”
We often do the exact opposite. We fret about the things outside our reach, but don’t handle the things we can truly manage.
Adam has been using words, like these, to encourage pastors as he speaks with them. More than any other time, he reminds them to take care of themselves, and to acknowledge their limits.
One leader recently told him, “In 18 years of ministry, I’ve never wanted to quit… until now.”
“Focus on where you ARE, not where you were,” he says.
Again, you can control things in the past. You can only live in the present.
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Read more + find the links to the show notes at www.CourageousPastors.com/blog/014
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Mar 24, 2022
Don’t take it personal, but make it personal (w/ Pastor Quovadis Marshall)
Pastor Q always knew— since he was first called— he would plant a church in his hometown. The church has just completed its sixth year.
In his own words, “It’s been both better than I thought AND harder than I thought…”
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Read more at www.CourageousPastors.com/blog/017
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Mar 10, 2022
Look back + live forward (w/ Jeff Leake)
Jeff Leake has been pastoring a long time. He was the pastoral assistant 30 years ago. Two years in, the lead pastor moved to CA to work at another church…
Jeff stepped into the interim role, then became the lead pastor.
Today, he leads the same church— now a multi-site congregation, spanning 6 physical locations, in the PIttsburgh area.
During this season he enjoys looking back and serving young leaders, pastors who stand in the position he found himself three decades ago. More so, he especially likes serving young leaders who want to plant a church.
In this episode Jeff mentions “the good ol’ days.”
It’s easy to look back and live nostalgically. But that’s not what he refers to at all. He doesn’t suggest we should just look back in order to complain about the present, either.
Rather, looking back is a way to remind us of God’s goodness, His faithfulness…
Recently, Jeff rode through a nearby area with the leader of one of their first church plants outside t…
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Feb 24, 2022
Two wings your ministry needs in order to fly (w/ Scott Wilson)
Scott talks about “two wings” all leaders need in order to move their organization forward: Respect and Relationship. In the same way an airplane won’t fly without two wings, you can’t “fly” your church or ministry without these two…
✈️ If you have the respect wing but no relationship wing, you won’t be able to lead people. They might respect you (for who you are, what you know, where you’ve been, etc.), but they won’t follow you because you lack connection.
This leads many leaders to develop a “buddy syndrome” with the people they’re called to lead. When that happens, they forfeit respect.
Here’s the problem that creates…
✈️ If you have the relationship wing but not the respect wing, they’ll connect with you— but they won’t follow.
You need BOTH in order to move the organization— that is, the church or ministry— forward.
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Feb 10, 2022
You can’t lead well if you can’t laugh well (w/ Andy Heis)
Andy begs pastors to find a band of brothers. Sure, he enjoys “talking church” and even theology (to learn, even with leaders who see things differently), but— even better than those conversations is the talks where you can be yourself.
Where you can connect.
Where you know you’re not alone.
Where you can cry and laugh at the same time.
“Most pastors are uptight,” Andy says. “They don’t feel safe. They carry the weight of so much…”
Furthermore, “The only people who know pastors ARE pastors… “
In truth, you can’t lead well if you can’t laugh well. Find a place where you can laugh.
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Jan 27, 2022
Healthy churches impact cities; but healthy churches need healthy families (w/ Rodney Gage)
If you, as a pastor aren’t healthy— and if your family isn’t healthy, you can’t lead a church well.
And if the church isn’t healthy, it can’t impact the culture.
So, everything the church does actually begins in the home— of the leaders.
(This is why Paul cautions us that elders in the church must have their family in order before they’re qualified to lead— see 1 Timothy 3:1-12, especially verse 4.)
“Don’t take your personal, home life for granted while you’re out leading the church,” Rodney encourages.
Remember, too, you had your family BEFORE the ministry and you’ll have them AFTER the ministry.
Family will be the ones who come to see you in the cemetery. Don’t ignore the one group who will be with you for the entire run…
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Jan 20, 2022
Expect it to be difficult (w/ Ken Claytor)
Ken reminds us, “Anything that’s worth ANYTHING is on the other side of hard.”
You’ll set your expectation in the wrong place if you don’t expect a challenge…
But, when we DO expect challenges, we’re prepared. We’ve counted the cost, and we’ve gone “all in” with our eyes wide open (Luke 14:25–33).
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Jan 13, 2022
You weren’t made to live in balance; you were designed to live in rhythm (Nick Newman)
Nick leads Propel Church in North Carolina— a church that’s been around for 6 years. That means that HALF of their life has been DURING COVID.
Several years ago, Nick found himself stuck in a drug addiction— one so bad, in fact, that he got expelled from his school.
Jesus radically saved him. And, he turned and led a Bible study that same day.
Years later, he planted a church in the SAME school where he was kicked-out…
800 salvations (and 376 baptisms) later, things have never looked better.
But it wasn’t always that way. There were seasons of struggle.
(One of the biggest values of coaching is that it empowers you to skip over another person’s paint.)
One of the main things Nick teaches other pastors, one of the pain-points he wants them to skip so they can live better?
Rest.
It’s easy to skip over it. In fact, it’s the ONLY of the 10 Commandments that most of us are OK ignoring.
Think about it. No one ignores the forbiddance against adultery or idolatry. But…
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Jan 6, 2022
You can’t add days to your life, so add life to your days instead (w/ Brandon Goff)
You see, we can’t necessarily tell what God’s will for us is a year from now.
But, we can tell what it is for today… and this week.
We often get side-swiped, stale-mated, and stalled-out because we don’t know where we’ll be 5 or 10 years from now.
But we do know where we are today.
* Today is the perfect today to empty hell and fill heaven.
* Today is the perfect day to love your staff— and lead them closer to their potential.
* Today is the perfect day to shepherd someone through a hard time.
* Today is the perfect day to honor your wife, to embrace your kids, and to go “all in.”
That is, today is the perfect day to make this burst of mist— the vapor— the best it can be.
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Links for this talk—
Schedule a strategy session = www.CourageousPastors.com/strategy
Download 3 systems folders every organization needs = https://www.courageouspastors.com/offers/7fgKZzuF/checkout
Learn about the Gears of Growth framework = www.CourageousPastors.com/o…
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Dec 30, 2021
Coachability is more important than competency (w/ Adam Bishop)
“For his first 15 years,” Adam says, “I got to work as an assistant coach to several GREAT lead pastors.”
In his mind, his stint as a youth pastor, an executive pastor, a small groups pastor, and more… those roles— with leaders helping him— empowered him to be who he is today.
In fact, Adam is a former staff member of Shawn Lovejoy!
In this talk, Adam discusses what it means to be the "second" in command, learn from a leader, and then move forward to leadership...
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Dec 23, 2021
Pastors need coaches AND counselors (w/ Jordan Ducote)
Jordan Ducote has been a pastor of a megachurch for four years. He’s 37, but looks like he’s… well… about 20.
He’s uniquely a successor… of his father.
There are blessings and burdens— alike— of following a legacy leader.
A few things Jordan mentions—
#1 = You don’t want to be the smartest guy in the room.
#2 = You still must the confident in who you are.
#3 = The mix of grace and truth.
#4 = Have a coach AND a counselor.
#5 = Be transparent and vulnerable to a fault… with the right people.
#6 = Use ministry to build people— don’t use people to build ministry.
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Dec 16, 2021
Not just the form of ministry, but the fire in it (w/ Jesse Bradley)
Jesse Bradley is a former soccer player turned pastor…
During his college days at Dartmouth, he took a introductory to world religions class, reading all the originally religious texts as part of the course requirements.
“The professor tried to undermine the Bible,” he recalls, “but Scripture is powerful.”
Jesse didn’t enroll in the class to seek Christianity, but the Christ sought him through that class.
A believer in the course offered him a steady stream of solid answer for each of this questions. Throughout the year, he continued reading. And asking. And growing.
In the end, he was a Christian.
If Covid taught us anything, it showed us that external success always comes up empty— especially when the success is removed. In fact, we might not even realize the issue until the external props are gone…
Jesse reminds us that this season gives us a chance to go back and re-write the script of our lives, to refocus on the things that matter, to go back to the r…
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Dec 9, 2021
God believes in you (w/ Sam Chand)
Leadership legend Sam Chand still remembers when Shawn told him, “When I hand off this church I want to do what you’re doing.”
In fact, Sam remembers the restaurant where the exchange happened…
And that’s one of the things that makes leaders like Sam Chand great— they see big vision but they drill it down by paying attention to the one person sitting in front of them.
In this episode Sam talks about pastors. Right now, shepherds are tired, he says. “They’re frazzled. Fatigued.”
Furthermore, this has nothing to do with their love for Jesus, but the season they’ve just endured.
(Sometimes, we need to realize that— the environment we’re in actually affects us in ways disproportional to the time involved.)
Pastors had to make fast decisions throughout the pandemic, and— as Sam says, “Regardless of the decision you made, you’ll be wrong with 50% of the people.”
The “no-win” scenario many pastors faced was much like quicksand…
“The more you s…
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Dec 2, 2021
So what if it fails? (w/ Chris Brown)
Chris Brown just did something somewhat unthinkable— he started a new church on the tail end of the pandemic, right as pastors and other leaders ask the question, “When is everyone coming back?”
He leads The Well, in Columbia, Tennessee which— as of the recording of this episode— was in it’s 5th week.
Chris was involved in vocational ministry for several years in various capacities (never as a lead pastor), then went to work for Ramsey Solutions for four years. Something continued stirring in him, though, to make the transition back to full time church work.
“I had a thirst for community and shepherding,” he said, “not for teaching.”
He’d taught before. It was the people— the connection— that pulled him back. Not the platform.
Here’s the difference in doing it now, in his 40s, rather than launching a church in his 20s (as many church planters do): “I’m really at a place where I don’t base my identify and self-worth on the metrics,” he says. “…
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Nov 25, 2021
The enemy can’t steal your call, so he goes after your confidence (w/ Bil Cornelius)
Bil Cornelius is one of the church leaders— a church planter— who paved the way for others. As Shawn points out in this episode of The Courageous Pastors Podcast, Bil—
* Used direct mail and actually marketed the church (against the wit of some naysayers)
* Hosted spontaneous baptisms
Because of this, amidst his innovative approach, he’s not a stranger to criticism.
How do you deal with critics?
Bil says, “The devil can’t steal your gifts, so he wants to take your confidence.”
Think about that one. And how hesitating in your calling can keep you from pushing forward into the role God has— in His grace— fore-ordained for you (Ephesians 2:8-10).
If the devil can rip away your confidence, he can stalemate you in your calling…
This leads us to a posture of prayer— of extended times with the Father.
Bil prays for an hour a day. At least.
And sometimes he does it while he’s walking, so he can talk to God out loud and not get distracted.
He admits, “I do…
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Nov 18, 2021
Grieve, Get Perspective, Go Forward (w/ Chris Johnson)
Pastor Chris Johnson leads Divine Unity Community Church— a multi-racial, multi-ethnic, multi-generational church in Harrisonburg, Virginia. As our nation experienced many of the racial and political upheavals, the people he leads leaned in hard to see what it means to unify as Ephesians 2 outlines rather than dividing on important— but lesser-important than the Kingdom— issues.
During the conversation, Shawn asks Chris his opinion: “What’s the biggest issue you see pastors facing now?”
His answer: “Grief.”
Chris says that many pastors are grieving the transitions they’ve seen in ministry, the new weight they carry, and the loss of previous expectations…
Face it. Leading a church and a ministry has transformed over the past few years— and it’s done so quickly.
Chris talks about how he deals— and has dealt with emotional overwhelm.
His main takeaway: there are things you can only acquire in the valley, perspective— and strength— you can’t gain from…
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Nov 11, 2021
Grow the Right Things (w/ Mike Burnette)
Mike Burnette replanted LifePoint Church when it was 5 years old, had 52 members, and was $2.5MM in debt. The church has grown steadily since then.
But growth isn’t always what it’s cracked-up to be— and it’s not something we should pursue for the simple sake of growth.
In this talk, Shawn and Mike discuss the importance of the Kingdom of God— and staying focused on the Kingdom rather than on ourselves, and what we can produce.
Mike talks candidly about being THE fastest growing church in America— according to Outreach Magazine’s 2018 poll. The following year, he fell into the 70s. Then, a year later, he didn’t even make the list. He describes what Top 100 did to him, in terms of staking value in the wrong place…
External, outside honors are certainly humbling. But they can also shake us when we place the wrong merit on them.
The year after he made the list, he actually wanted to quit ministry. It was tough, and marked by marital strife and other tensions.
Mike…
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Nov 3, 2021
Do You, Then Do the Ministry (w/Clayton King)
Clayton King preaches most weekends at NewSpring Church in South Carolina, he leads Clayton King Ministries, and he’s written 17 books (the latest one being released during the pandemic).
But than that, he’s a normal guy who loves Jesus. He likes to go outdoors, and he rides a motorcycle with a random playlist to clear his mind.
In this talk he begins by discussing the Good-Fast-Cheap Pyramid.
“You can choose 2 out of the 3,” he says, “but not all three.”
The problem is that we’ve got to make sure we choose the right 2— and that involves recognizing the season we’re in…
Think about it…
If you want fast and cheap, the work will be shoddy.
A contractor you hire with this approach will give you a “rush job,” then move to the next project. The work won’t be good, but it will be done.
If you want cheap and good, it’s not going to be fast. It will take some time.
A contractor you hire here will squeeze you in when they can, most likely doing bits and pi…
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