The Story Copywriter Podcast
Rob Drummond
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Learn how to write stories that sell and become the written voice of a business you love.
Available episodes
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3 days ago
52 Reflecting Stories Inwards (feat. Remeny Armitage)
The storytelling work I do with my clients is entirely interview-driven. I interview people to explore and document their story, then present that story outwards through their marketing communications.
However the customer stories you gather can also be used to develop new products, drive innovation and sharpen your competitive edge. Stories can face inwards as well as out. Listen in to my conversation with Remeny Armitage, founder of Brilliant and Human, as we discuss:
* Why you can’t rely on automation and AI to present the ‘real you’
* How to discover what your clients are really saying about you – and how to use that feedback within your business
* How to develop clients into advocates
* Why to prioritise customer interviews as a process
* Common feedback Remeny hears during her interviews – and the direct impact on client revenue
* How to act quickly on client feedback (and why this matters)
* How to gather client feedback at exactly the right time
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Links mentioned in the conversation:
Remeny's website: Brilliant and Human
Remeny's LinkedIn
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Mar 16, 2023
51 The Real Customer Journey (feat. Aveline Clarke)
The "customer journey" is one of my favourite marketing metaphors. If you sell high value services, you usually need to take new potential customers on a 'journey' before they're ready to buy.
But what should that journey look like? And is it all about the tech? On this episode I interview customer journey architect Aveline Clarke. Listen in now as we discuss:
* The difference between the human customer journey and the transactional customer journey
* Why the ‘customer journey’ is not the same as your marketing tech stack
* How to avoid the pendulum of marketing shiny objects
* Why talking about ‘what you do’ can sabotage the customer journey
* Why the customer journey begins with who you are, on the deepest possible level
* The customer journey planning process Ave goes through with her clients
Links mentioned in the conversation:
Aveline's website: Journey Point
The 6 Star Business podcast
Aveline's LinkedIn
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Mar 1, 2023
50 Email Marketing Software & Systems (feat. Gareth Everson)
“Which email marketing platform should I use?” is an evergreen marketing question! It takes real time and investment to setup any email marketing tool. You need to be sure you are making the right choice.
On this episode I interview systems expert Gareth Everson. Listen in now as we discuss:
* The difference between ‘software’ and ‘systems’ – and why it matters!
* Gareth’s 8 core eight core customer processes, and why lead generation is rarely the real issue
* The correct thinking behind selecting the right software
* Why using an entry level solution (such as Mailchimp) isn’t necessarily a problem
* Why it is beneficial to have a single view of the contact
* Integrations you might want to consider
* How to document your systems outside of your email marketing software
Links mentioned in the conversation:
Gareth’s Lemonade Plan website / book
Gareth’s CRM Growth Systems (for agencies)
Gareth’s LinkedIn
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Feb 19, 2023
49 Mighty MicroBooks (feat. Vicky Quinn Fraser)
Publishing a book can be a great way to attract a steady stream of qualified prospects. BUT, writing a book is a lot of work! At least, that's the assumption...
In this episode I interview Vicky Quinn Fraser about the concept of 'MicroBooks'. A MicroBook is a short nonfiction book that delivers a powerful transformation to the right reader. Listen now to learn:
* What a ‘MicroBook’ is and how to make it mighty
*
How to leverage changes in publishing to share your message with a wider audience
*
How to write books that generate real, qualified leads for your business
*
How the best books provide a tangible transformation
*
How long a MicroBook should take to write
*
Whether to dictate your MicroBook rather than write it
*
Tips for effective self-publishing
*
How to use AI as part of the writing process
Links mentioned in the conversation:
Politics and the English Language (George Orwell) (or on Amazon)
IngramSpark (one self-publishing option)
ProWritingAid (similar to Grammarly)
Vellum (Vicky's typesetting software for Mac)
Vicky's website | LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram
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Feb 13, 2023
48 A Pro Copywriter Analysis of ChatGPT! (feat. James Daniel)
I might have been living under a rock for a year, but it feels like 'ChatGPT' has burst onto the writing scene in recent months. Could this be the tool to (finally) automate your copy?
Well no, of course it isn't. But it can still play an important role in your writing! On this episode I caught up with copywriter James Daniel to discuss how. Listen now to learn:
* How to use ChatGPT to produce quick first drafts
* The limitations (and dangers) of relying on ChatGPT
* Why ChatGPT can be a valuable rearch assistant
* Why ChatGPT will never (fully) replace human input
* The potential of ChatGPT for storytelling and scriptwriting
* How to use ChatGPT in your writing workflow
* Differences between ChatGPT and Jasper.ai
Links mentioned in the conversation:
Our analysis of Jasper.ai
Jon Loomer's work with ChatGPT
James' website: jamesthecopywriter.co.uk
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Aug 26, 2022
47 Storytelling Video Scripts (feat. James Daniel)
Video can be a fast, effective way to build trust with new potential customers. The trouble is, most business video misses the mark. We worry about the technicalities of lighting, equipment and presentation, when what matters most is the script.
On this episode, I interview copywriter James Daniel. James runs a video production service called Scripteroo. As the name implies, he's all about the script! Listen now to learn about the different types of structure you can use for your video.
James has also offered a free set of video script templates, which you can find at https://scripteroo.com/video-script-templates/.
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Aug 19, 2022
46 The Letter From 2100 (feat. Derek Dearden)
Humans are rationalising creatures, not rational creatures. We tell stories to ourselves and each other all day long. At the highest level, these stories perpetuate or challenge the 'status quo', or the way things are.
I've recently helped a friend and client, Derek Dearden, to publish a book about this called The Letter from 2100: A Possible World for your Grandchildren. On this episode I interview Derek about the book and explore Derek's experience with Amazon's self publishing platform.
Derek's website is https://oneworldthatworks.org/
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Jul 22, 2022
44 Storytelling for SEO
Did you know that storytelling can help with your SEO (Search Engine Optimisation) efforts?
To discover how, I recently spoke to copywriter and SEO expert Sam Boyd. Listen now to learn:
* Why to get 'beta readers' for any substantial piece of writing
* How stories can help you 'sell without selling'
* How stories can be used to illustrate the need for a product
* How to place stories in customer testimonials
* How to tell customer stories that sound authentic (because they are!)
* Why your stories don't need to be perfect
* How long your articles should be
* How often to publish
* How to organise your content to boost rankings
* How to write compelling case studies
* How long an SEO content project should take to deliver results
* How to research content ideas
Sam can be found at www.copysmiths.com.
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Jul 15, 2022
43 Making It!
A few months back I was interviewed by Danny Iny's team at Mirasee for their podcast Making It. On the show I talked about my journey into copywriting and some key lessons along the way.
Danny's team have kindly let me republish the interview here, so listen in and enjoy the show.
The Making It show can be found at https://mirasee.com/podcast/making-it/. Strongly recommended.
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Jun 10, 2022
42 How Story Connects to Purpose
In this episode, I explore how stories can help communicate your purpose and values. Listen now to learn:
* What barefoot running taught me about storytelling
* How storytelling allows you to understand yourself better, and gain perspective on your own values
* How to leverage the fractal nature of storytelling to build trust
* How to select stories that illustrate your core values
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May 27, 2022
41 Speed
Your effectiveness as a Story Copywriter is in part determined by your ability to produce quickly. Your 'writing speed' bears little relation to how many words per minute you can type.
So what matters? How can you increase your writing productivity? Listen now to learn:
* The importance (and role) of ongoing research
* What skills you need to write quickly
* The number one problem that will sabotage your writing
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May 13, 2022
40 When To Write
What time of day is best to write for optimum production? The short answer of course is 'it depends on you'. However, after working as a copywriter for many years, and training many clients, I think the question of 'when to write' is more nuanced than it seems!
In this episode I discuss:
* My personal experience of writing at different times, and how to manage your energy
* How to minimise distractions
* WHERE to write, not just when
* Why drinking copious amounts of coffee may be hindering your writing
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Apr 29, 2022
39 Video Storytelling (feat. Orson Lord) - Part 2
I invited Orson back onto the Story Copywriter Podcast to continue our discussion about storytelling in video.
This wide-ranging conversation covers:
* Can you use 'cliffhangers' in video to keep people watching?
* The 'bouncy start' vs the 'chronological start'
* Different use cases for short and long form video
* The role of white space in story planning
* The role of background music
* Why sound effects matter more than music
* The different roles of sympathy and empathy in good storytelling
* How to use pacing to keep people watching
* How to specialise and collaborate as a Story Copywriter
Orson's work can be found at mediable.com.au
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Apr 8, 2022
38 Rebirth
Have you ever been through an extended period of struggle in your life or career, culminating in radical personal transformation?
If so, you have a 'rebirth' story on your hands! Learn how to apply the lessons of Sleeping Beauty, Frozen and Scrooge to your business storytelling. Learn:
* Why the rebirth plot is the close cousin of tragedy
* Why the plot is universally engaging and recognisable
* Who should use this plot to build trust with potential customers
*
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Mar 25, 2022
37 The Tragedy Plot
The 'tragedy' plot covers a wide range of stories that lack the 'happy ending' we are so used to seeing.
From a business storytelling perspective, you might be wondering, "why would I tell a tragedy story?" Why would you tell a story without a happy ending?
The answer is to draw your reader's attention to a potentially deadly problem they may have overlooked.
Listen now to learn:
* Why the 'dark character' in a tragedy plot is never truly 'evil'
* Why tragedy stories have persisted in literature across milennia
* Why tragedy is relevant and pertinent to every one of us
* How and when to use it in business storytelling
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Mar 11, 2022
36 The Comedy Plot
The comedy plot archetype first emerged in Ancient Greece, and has played an important role in literature over the last 2000 years.
Can you use the comedy plot in business? Yes! Do you need to be funny to use it? NO! (Which for me at least, is just as well).
Listen now to learn:
* The key element at the heart of every successful comedy plot
* Where to use the comedy plot in your marketing (hint: probably NOT up front)
* How the comedy plot can help build trust with potential customers
* Why the comedy plot is a versatile hammer to have in your storytelling toolkit
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Feb 25, 2022
35 Voyage and Return
This episode of the Story Copywriter Podcast looks at the second basic plot based on a journey: 'Voyage and Return'.
Voyage and Return is a versatile plot, with wide ranging applications for business use. Listen now to learn:
* Why the return matters MUCH more than the journey
* Why the voyage should remove or question your sense of self
* How to escalate drama and suspense throughout the story
* The key message behind the Voyage and Return plot, and why this is useful for business storytelling
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Feb 11, 2022
34 The Quest
Want to place a truly engaging story at the heart of your marketing? One of the oldest and most engaging plot archetypes is the quest…
It’s tempting to think of the quest as a ‘journey’. And while there IS always a physical journey in every quest, the journey is only a part of the hero’s ordeal!
Learn how the quest plot works in practice, what the main ingredients are, and how to use it in a business setting. In this episode Rob explains:
* The role of companions and ‘helper characters’ in every good quest plot
* The key characteristics of a quest
* The number one ingredient of a successful quest plot
* How to apply to a business setting
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Feb 4, 2022
33 Rags to Riches
The ‘Rags to Riches’ plot is perhaps the easiest plot to use in business. Unfortunately, it’s also easy to get wrong, because most marketers only write about their riches!
The secret to Rags to Riches is that neither the rags nor the riches actually matter much (and are subjective). What matters is the part in the middle.
What is that part? Find out in this episode, and learn:
* Why 'Rags to Riches' is potentially a good place to start using the plot archetype
* The key elements of a good Rags to Riches story
* How the plot can go wrong
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Jan 28, 2022
32 Overcoming The Monster
This episode reviews plot 1 of 7 from Christopher Booker's book 'The Seven Basic Plots', and examines potential use cases in business. Listen now to learn:
* Why 'Overcoming The Monster' appears so often in literature
* The key elements of an 'Overcoming The Monster' plot
* Why I believe this plot likely isn't right for your 'signature story
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Jan 21, 2022
31 The Plot Archetype
Anyone can tell stories. Stories are an everyday part of the human experience. But what allows a great story to stand the test of time?
This episode takes a deep dive into the plot archetype structure. Rob reviews Christopher Booker's book The 7 Basic Plots, and examines whether we can apply the key lessons to business storytelling. Listen now to learn:
* Why the plot archetype structure is a tool, not a requirement
* How to leverage deep principles to tell better stories
* How and where to use the plot archetype structure in your marketing
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Dec 24, 2021
30 Copywriting in Community
It's prediction time for 2022! Where should you focus your storytelling efforts? Listen now to learn:
* Why writing alone is a bad idea
* Different options for 'copywriting in community'
* The three best ways to tell your story in your marketing (for 2022 and beyond)
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Dec 10, 2021
29 Storytelling in Podcasts
Podcasting allows you to create your own 'radio station' to nurture potential customers.
In this episode I share my experience of three years of podcasting, including:
* How to determine the scope of your podcast
* Whether to record monologue or dialogue
* How to repurpose your podcast episodes into other media
* How to structure your podcast to deliver your message
* The technology I use
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Dec 3, 2021
28 How To Write a Great Business Book
A book is an excellent way to promote your work and your business. Amazon has made book publishing easier than ever... in theory!
The question is, what should you write about? Should you include part of your personal story? How long should the book be? What offer should you put in the book? How long should the whole process take? What kind of results should you expect?
Get answers to all of the above - and more - in this episode of The Story Copywriter Podcast!
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Nov 26, 2021
27 Email Marketing System Selection
"Which email marketing system should I use?" is perhaps the most frequently asked marketing question.
It's also the wrong question to ask!
Listen now to learn how to identify the right email marketing tool for your needs.
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Nov 19, 2021
26 How Documentation Will Save Your Sanity
How often do you lose time trying to find an email you sent in the past? How often do you spend time trying to diagnose why an email sequence isn't working?
At some point things can and will go wrong in your email follow-up systems. When things go wrong it's the quality (and existence) of your documentation that will save your sanity.
No more digging around in Gmail trying to find an email you created three years ago. No more digging around in old email campaigns. Listen to this episode to eliminate the confusion for good...
Listen now to learn:
* The three types of copy documentation you need in your business
* Which documentation platform I recommend (and why)
* What to include in your documentation
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Nov 12, 2021
25 Automated vs Broadcast Emails
Many email marketers are trying to automate every email a potential customer is sent across the entire customer journey. But is this 'hands free' really attainable... or desirable?
I believe you need a balance in your marketing between automated emails, and live 'out of the pan' broadcasts. Listen now to learn:
* Why automated emails suffer from entropy
* Where to place automated email sequences
* How long your automated email sequences should be
* How to repurpose your best emails into other formats
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Oct 29, 2021
24 Storytelling in Video (feat. Orson Lord)
When you're a 'Story Copywriter' you're the written voice of a business you love. Maybe even your own business.
But can you - and should you - tell your personal stories in video? If so, how should you go about it? Do you need to become a professional videographer?
The answer is, no! In this episode, I interview videographer and storyteller Orson Lord. Listen now to learn:
* Who should tell their personal story in video
* How long your video should be
* How to promote with ads - and where
* How telling your story can improve lead quality
* Why you shouldn't attempt to tell your own story by yourself
* What kit you need to get started (and why you might already own it)
* Lighting tips for an engaging video
* The $20 app that will save your sanity while recording
* A framework to help tell your story
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Oct 22, 2021
23 Storytelling for Social Media
A good story told well helps to build trust with new potential customers. But can you - and should you - tell personal stories on social media?
The answer, in my opinion, is yes! BUT it's also easy to get wrong. It's easy to appear self indulgent.
Listen now to learn:
* How to open your story on social media to draw people in
* How to structure the story to keep people reading
* How to end the story - and where to stop
* What images work best
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Oct 15, 2021
22 Who Should Be a Story Copywriter?
Learning to write compelling stories is a valuable copywriting skill - but it also takes time and dedication.
Should YOU take the time to become a Story Copywriter? Is this a good match for your skills, interests and ambitions? Find out in this episode!
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Oct 8, 2021
21 Copywriting in Collaboration
Are you a business owner who also likes to write? If time allowed, would you write more of your own copy?
If yes, you may be a good match for 'Copywriting in Collaboration'!
Listen now to learn:
* Why the balance of copywriting responsibility sits on a continuum
* Why Copywriting in Collaboration allows everyone to play to their strengths
* The mindset required to deliver great results
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Oct 1, 2021
20 The Story Map Process
When I'm helping a business owner tell their story we always start with the Story Map Interview. The Story Map is a process to explore your story and map out the key events.
In this episode I share the key lessons I've learned from 5+ years of Story Map interviews. I discuss key insights for both the business owners and copywriters. Listen now to learn:
* Why telling your story is best done in dialogue
* How to capture emotional depth in the interview
* How to convert the interview into a usable format - and beat the blank screen for good!
You can also see my Story Map interview questions here.
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Sep 24, 2021
19 Email Storytelling Insights
In this episode I share an interview I did with my friend and Google Ads expert Jonathan Wilson. We crammed a LOT of storytelling insights into this conversation!
You'll find this conversation a good recap of recent episodes, and also a teaser of future episodes to come.
Download or listen in now :-)
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Sep 17, 2021
18 Story Selection: Core vs Current Stories
Which stories should you tell in your marketing? Should you tell key events from your past? Or should you relate more everyday goings on?
This episode looks at the foundation of story selection. Discover the difference between a 'core story' and a 'current story', and the use case for each.
Listen now to learn:
* How to identify your most emotionally compelling stories
* Where to place each type of story in your follow-up sequences
* Why a 'current story' can sometimes transition into a 'core story'
* How to come up with new ideas
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Sep 9, 2021
17 Maintaining Consistency
"How often should I email" is perhaps the most-asked email marketing question. Will you 'annoy' your list by sending more frequent emails? How do you determine the most appropriate publishing schedule? How do you DELIVER on that schedule?
The answer lies in consistency...
Listen now to learn:
* How consistency encourages a regular reading habit
* Why consistency adds tangible value to your email list
* A simple calculation to determine optimal email frequenct
* How to deliver consistently on your schedule
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Sep 2, 2021
16 Editing
Editing is a critical part of the copywriting process. But how much should you edit? Where should you put your focus for the biggest gains? Listen now to learn:
* Why perfectionism is the enemy - and how to beat it
* The two most important editing steps
* How long to leave between writing and editing (and why you need a gap)
* How to apply the 80/20 principle for efficient editing
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Aug 26, 2021
15 Using Conflict!
Learn how to keep people reading - by using conflict! Spice up your next marketing email with the three forms of conflict. Listen now to learn:
* Why most of your conflict should NOT be physical peril
* How to leverage internal dilemmas for added suspense
* How conflict can help to upgrade your reader's level of understanding about your topic
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Aug 20, 2021
14 Intrigue and Suspense
Learn how to lace intrigue and suspense throughout your stories to keep people reading. This episode includes a worked example and recent insights from Rob's copywriting work. Listen now to learn:
* How to lace suspense throughout a story - without making it too obvious
* How to bring the reader into your story
* How to let the reader walk in your shoes, feel your fears and share your peril!
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Aug 12, 2021
13 Email Draft Development
You've had an idea for an email. You've got a great story to tell. You've planned the story using a timeline...
But now you've come to actually write the email, the blank Word document of doom is staring you in the face.
How do you convert your timeline into a draft email, without pulling your hair out? That's the topic of today's episode. Listen now to learn:
* How to expand your timeline into an interim first draft
* How (and why) to check your first draft for contrast and drama
* How to expand your first draft into a fully drafted email
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Aug 5, 2021
12 The One Idea
Learn how to connect seamlessly from your story to your sales message using the 'one idea'. Listen now to learn:
* How to 'bridge' between a story and your sales message
* How to inverse the one idea to open up more connection possibilities
* How to 'seed' the one idea for a seamless transition
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Jul 30, 2021
Recap 1: Episodes 1-11
In this episode Rob recaps on the key insights from Episodes 1 to 11.
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Jul 23, 2021
11 The Timeline Technique
The timeline is a simple, low tech planning technique for creating effective stories. If you ever feel intimidated telling a story listen now to learn:
* How the timeline can act as a series of prompts
* How the timeline can maximise drama and maintain interest
* How the timeline can prevent your story from developing a dual focus
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Jul 16, 2021
10 Research Tips for Story Copywriters
Most marketers think they have a writing problem. "If only I could craft more compelling stories!" people will say.
Yes, the writing matters. But there's good news: research matters more.
Once you master the art of ongoing research you'll never suffer from writer's block ever again. Listen now to learn:
* Why 'winging it' is a recipe for disaster
* Where to research ideas
* How to capture them
* How to organise them for fast retrieval
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Jul 9, 2021
09 Other Stories
The stories you tell in your marketing don't always have to be about you. This is a great relief to the majority of business owners I work with!
Today's episode looks at the final story type: the 'other' story. Listen now to learn:
* How to select interesting stories to tell
* How telling one story can branch into many more
* Where to place 'other' stories in your marketing
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Jul 2, 2021
08 Story Types Part 2: Personal Stories
Personal stories are highly effective at building trust with new potential customers. In this episode we place personal stories under the spotlight.
Listen now to learn:
* Why personal stories are effective
* Where to place them
* How long your personal stories should be
* How many stories you should place in an email sequence
* How to bridge from personal story to sales message
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Jun 25, 2021
07 Story Types (Part 1)
There are (to my knowledge) four types of story you can tell in your marketing: product stories, customer stories, personal stories and 'other' stories. They all can be used at different stages throughout the customer journey.
In this episode we examine the first two types: product stories and customer stories.
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Jun 18, 2021
06 Customer Journey Planning
Before you start telling stories in your marketing you first need a clear grasp of the customer journey.
What does the ideal customer journey look like? Listen now to learn:
* Why the customer journey is spherical rather than linear
* How to structure your marketing follow-up systems for maximum sales!
* How to identify missing 'nurture' and 'training' assets to shorten the sales cycle
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Jun 11, 2021
05 The Implementer Role
Is implementation a bottleneck in your marketing? Are you ALWAYS scarce on time? If so you probably need an implementer...
Listen now to learn:
* Why you NEED an implementer now more than ever
* How to outsource to an implementer without losing control of the outcome
* How to best manage the work an implementer does for you
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May 21, 2021
04 The Copywriter Role
In this episode we ask: what does it take to be a successful Story Copywriter? What are the requirements of the role? Is this an innate skill, or one you can learn? Which skill factors are most important?
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May 21, 2021
03 The Systems Expert
You can't talk about copywriting without also talking about the technology that underpins it. When it comes to email, "which email system should I use?" is perhaps the biggest email marketing question.
Today's episode examins the role of the person responsible for that system: the systems expert.
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May 21, 2021
02 The Business Owner Role
If you run your own business, should you also be writing your own copy? What role should a business owner play in the production of successful copy? Find out in this episode.
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May 21, 2021
01 What is a Story Copywriter
Learn what a 'Story Copywriter' is, and why you should become one!
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