Chris Hutchins – Why You Should “Retire” Before You Hit Your Number
Play episode · 1 hr 2 min

On today’s episode of the Financial Independence Podcast, I interview a serial entrepreneur who has achieved financial independence three different ways!

You’d think that selling a company to Google or buying San Francisco real estate before prices went crazy would be the best way to reach financial independence but that’s not been the case for today’s guest, Chris Hutchins from Grove.

Although he’s done all of those things, Chris shares how consistent saving actually impacted his net worth more than anything else.

This episode is packed full of useful information, especially if plan to start your own business or want to do something meaningful after early retirement, so hope you enjoy it!


  • What it’s like being an investment banker
  • How to get a job you really love
  • Biggest business lessons learned from working at Google Ventures
  • Why you should always say “Yes”
  • The benefits of doing something interesting every month
  • How aggressive saving can impact your net worth more than selling a company to Google or investing in San Francisco real estate
  • Why you should “retire” before you hit your FI number
  • My new favorite definition of retirement
The Unstuck Network
262 | How to Decide | Annie Duke
* Annie Duke is a world champion poker player and author of Thinking in Bets, a book which makes the case for embracing uncertainty in our decision-making framework. In Annie's latest book, How to Decide: Simple Tools for Making Better Choices, she answers the question, what does a good decision-making process look like and how to incorporate that into your own life. * The only way we can become better at making decisions is from our own experience, and our experience is going to be the outcomes of past decisions we've made. We need to understand the way in which knowing how something turned out can mess with our ability to figure out why. * In a thought experiment concerning the 2015 Super Bowl between the Seahawks and the Patriots, Annie reviews a play called by Pete Carroll in the last seconds of the game. Though widely panned as the worst play called in Super Bowl history, Annie states that it's hard to evaluate the quality of the play called when we already know the outcome. * Had the outcome of Pete Carroll's play been a touchdown, the reaction would have been the opposite. This phenomenon is called Resulting, where the quality of the result is attributed the quality of the decision. * Reviewing the actual odds of the result of that specific play, Annie determines that Pete Carroll's decision was far from the worst play called of all time as there was only a 25 likelihood of that specific result. * Annie applies what she's learned playing poker, specifically realizing that what you see happen doesn't change the decision that you make, to other aspects of life. * The paradox of experience is that while we know we need all of these experiences to learn, we see how things unfold and we take our lessons for individual experiences, not in the aggregate. * Poker has some surprising similarities to real life in that your outcome is a combination of luck and the quality of your decisions. * The definition of luck is what you don't have control over. You cannot control your own luck. You can control the quality of the decisions you make and reduce the chance that luck has an influence that will turn out poorly for you. While we are all under the influence of luck, we are also very much under the influence of our own decisions. * In our decision making, we should see the luck clearly and make the decisions that are more likely to advance our goals. Brad ties that to ChooseFI's philosophy of the aggravation of marginal gains and striving to do 1% better. * We have a lot of cognitive bias that delude us into believing things are much more stable than they really are. COVID has torn that away from us. We are also feeling the effect of imperfect information. COVID is not a special case, it's just something we can't hide from the uncertainty. * COVID does give us an opportunity to think about how to navigate uncertainty which will improve all decisions we make. * A pro and con list has no dimensions to it, specifically missing are the magnitude of the payoff or how much will it advance or take away from your goal, and what is the probability of each con. These lists also amply biases you already have and can be gamed to reach a predetermined decision. * With inside view thinking, our personal models create cognitive trenches. When new information comes in, we mold it into a model we already have rather than be objective. * An outside view is what is true of the world. * To try and avoid inside view thinking, we need to expose ourselves to different perspectives of corrective information. * The foundation we base our decisions on is flimsy and full of inaccuracies. We should increase the probability that we collide with perspectives and information we don't know. * It's okay to say you don't know very much and decide to get more information to become a better decision-maker. * Making a good decision with one stock doesn't necessarily make you a good investor, you would have to look at all the decisions made with your portfolio. * When getting to your outside view, it helps to get yourself into the future because it helps us look back on ourselves. We also need to realize that we tend to believe we are more likely to be successful than we actually are. It's helpful to think about all the ways in which you might fail. * A pre-mortem is the idea that time travel and negative thinking will result in an outside view and lead to better decision making. * A backcast is the opposite of a pre-mortem where you look at the luck and skills that lead to a positive outcome. * To find groups of people to get the best opinions from, find people who are interested in finding what is true in the world, but by putting the framework in place, you can turn anybody into an amazing true-seeking pod. * When seeking other's opinions, it's best not to divulge your own opinion beforehand. It results in one of three ways: it might show the other person's opinion is right, the truth may lie in the middle somewhere, or it may show your opinion is right and help you to understand it better. * Annie believes that mostly we should be making decisions faster than we do. The decision-making process is a skill and it takes time to understand which we should be taking our time we should take our time with and which could be faster. * The speed of our decisions should be made by the impact of the decision and optionality available. RESOURCES MENTIONED IN TODAY'S CONVERSATION * Earn $1,000 in cashback with ChooseFI's 3-card credit card strategy * Switch to Mint Mobile and save with free shipping * Get our #1 recommended travel rewards credit card, the Chase Sapphire Preferred and earn 80,000 points * Get started on the path to financial independence at IF YOU WANT TO SUPPORT CHOOSEFI: * Earn $1,000 in cashback with ChooseFI's 3-card credit card strategy.  * Share FI by sending a friend ChooseFI: Your Blueprint to Financial Independence.
1 hr 7 min
Be Wealthy & Smart
Be Wealthy & Smart
Linda P. Jones
Google Sued for Anti-Trust, What's Next?
Learn why the DOJ brought a lawsuit against Google and which big tech companies are next. The article is here. Are you investing well for financial freedom...or not? As we live our lives, we have seen enormous money be made in real estate, technology stocks, etc. and have seen wild swings in markets before. They can feel scary at the time, but in hindsight are often tremendous opportunities for future financial success. If you only knew where to invest for the long-term, what a difference it would make, because the difference between investing $100k and earning 2% or 10% on your money over 30 years, is the difference between it growing to $181,136 or $1,744,940, an increase of over $1.5 million dollars. Your compounding rate, and how well you invest, matters! INTERESTED IN THE BE WEALTHY & SMART VIP EXPERIENCE? -Asset allocation model with ticker symbols and % to invest -Monthly investing webinars with Linda -Private Facebook group with daily insights -Weekly stock market commentary email -Lifetime access -US and foreign investors, no minimum $ amount required For a limited time, enjoy a 50% savings. More information is here or have complimentary consultation with Linda to answer your questions click here: PLEASE REVIEW THE SHOW ON ITUNES If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and leave a review. I love hearing from you! I so appreciate it! SUBSCRIBE TO BE WEALTHY & SMART Click Here to Subscribe Via iTunes Click Here to Subscribe Via Stitcher on an Android Device Click Here to Subscribe Via RSS Feed WEALTH HEIRESS TV Please subscribe to Wealth Heiress TV YouTube channel (it’s not just for women, it’s for men too!), here. PLEASE LEAVE A BOOK REVIEW Leave a book review on Amazon here. Get my book, “You’re Already a Wealth Heiress, Now Think and Act Like One: 6 Practical Steps to Make It a Reality Now!” Men love it too! After all, you are Wealth Heirs. :) Available for purchase on Amazon. International buyers (if you live outside of the US) get my book here. WANT MORE FROM LINDA? Check out her programs. Join her on Instagram. WEALTH LIBRARY OF PODCASTS Listen to the full wealth library of podcasts from the beginning. Use the search bar in the upper right corner of the page to search topics. TODAY'S SPONSOR I want to take a few seconds to tell you about how I “read” more books and stay ahead of the curve. It’s by not reading books, but instead listening to them – like you are right now! With Audible, there are over 150,000 titles to choose from for your iPhone, Android, Kindle or mp3 player and…your first audiobook is FREE! I suggest you get the audio book of Think and Grow Rich, or you can check out my website Resources page where I list all of my favorite financial books and you see exactly what books I have read and recommend you read. Then get started with Audible by visiting and order your first audio book free! Get Think and Grow Rich or another book from my recommend list, and be sure to get started checking off the books you want to read with your free book from Audible! Be Wealthy & Smart,™ is a personal finance show with self-made millionaire Linda P. Jones, America’s Wealth Mentor.™ Learn simple steps that make a big difference to your financial freedom. (Some links are affiliate links. There is no additional cost to you.)
12 min
Sound Investing
Sound Investing
Paul Merriman
Q&A Follow-up: "Which Is The Best 1-,2-, 3- and 4 Fund Strategy?” Part 3
Paul is joined by Chris Pedersen, Director of Research and Daryl Bahls, Director of Analytics for The Merriman Financial Education Foundation, to answer questions from viewers of the AAII Webinar, "Which Is The Best 1-,2-, 3- and 4 Fund Strategy?” that Paul presented Sept. 23, 2020. While the presentation explored returns of 11 portfolios, from 1 to 4 funds, the focus was on the Merriman 4-Fund Combo.  See all URL links below. It is not necessary to watch or listen to the original presentation to appreciate this Q&A session, but it will likely be helpful. This is presented as both a podcast and a YouTube video. If you enjoy this, please like and share. Your engagement helps support our work…thank you! Download a free PDF of all slides in the original presentation: As the presentation included results for all 11 of what we call “No-Nonsense Portfolios,” several viewers wanted to know how the 10-fund Merriman Ultimate Buy and Hold Portfolio performed for the 1990-2019 period. In this Q&A we addressed that topic. The following questions are from the live event’s audience:  * Will you be developing small portfolios that include international equity funds? * Will you discuss your use of market timing, including how DFA uses market timing in their portfolio management? * With only 10 years left until retirement, how appropriate will the 2 Funds for Life portfolio be? •  What is a safe withdrawal rate in retirement? * What do you recommend for a 50- to 60-year-old who wants to retire now compared to one who is 60 to 70?  (The viewer adds he has a $3 million portfolio.) * How can you recommend bond funds when they pay such little income? * Do you like the Life Cycle Funds within the U.S. Government Thrift Savings Plan?  Would you recommend the Small Cap Fund in the TSP for your 2 Funds for Life Portfolio? * Do you use equal weighted index funds in any of your 4-Fund Combo? * Do you always recommend rebalancing your 4-Fund Combo? * Where can I get a copy of your upcoming book, We’re Talking Millions! 12 ways to Supercharge Your Retirement? * What do you think is the best formula for the percentage you have in stocks and bonds?  [See our Fine Tuning Tables and Distribution Tables] * What is the biggest mistakes young investors make? * I have fully funded my 401k and have more money to invest… should I put in taxable account or my wife’s 401(k)? * What books do you recommend? Winning the Loser's Game by Charles Ellis A Random Walk Down Wall Street by Burton G. Malkiel Your Complete Guide to a Successful and Secure Retirement by Larry Swedroe Your Money and Your Brain by Jason Zweig Spending Your Way to Wealth by Paul Heys
1 hr 19 min
Bogleheads On Investing Podcast
Bogleheads On Investing Podcast
Episode 026: Morgan Housel, host Rick Ferri
Morgan Housel is an author of The Psychology of Money book and writes a blog as a partner at The Collaborative Fund. He is a former columnist at The Motley Fool and The Wall Street Journal, a two-time winner of the Best in Business Award from the Society of American Business Editors and Writers, winner of the New York Times Sidney Award, and a two-time finalist for the Gerald Loeb Award for Distinguished Business and Financial Journalism. This podcast is hosted by Rick Ferri, CFA, a long-time Boglehead and investment adviser. The Bogleheads are a group of like-minded individual investors who follow the general investment and business beliefs of John C. Bogle, founder and former CEO of the Vanguard Group. It is a conflict-free community where individual investors reach out and provide education, assistance, and relevant information to other investors of all experience levels at no cost. The organization's free website is and the wiki site is Bogleheads® wiki. Bogleheads sites are operated by volunteers who contribute time and talent. Donations help defray operating costs. Since 2000, the Bogleheads' have held national conferences in major cities around the country and currently meet in Philadelphia in the autumn of each year. There are 56 Local Chapters in the US and three Foreign Chapters that also meet regularly. New Chapters are being added on a regular basis. This podcast is supported by the John C. Bogle Center for Financial Literacy, a non-profit organization approved by the IRS as a 501(c)(3) public charity on February 6, 2012.
52 min
BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast
BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast
409: Giving Yourself Permission to Go BIGGER: the "Bluefishing" Mentality with Steve Sims
Today's a special episode featuring the author of a book we can't get enough of: Bluefishing: The Art of Making Things Happen by the man, the myth, the legend - Steve Sims. Who is Steve, anyway? Well, he's a former bricklayer and bouncer-turned-entrepreneur who uses a unique mindset and blend of skills to creates once-in-a-lifetime experiences for billionaire clients. Experiences like: getting married by the Pope in the Vatican, having a private dinner at the feet of Michaelangelo's David statue, or going on an underwater tour of the Titanic shipwreck. And here's the thing: as you'll hear in this episode, Steve's not a silver-spoon, high society type. He's just a regular guy who chooses to think and act differently, consistently. And after this episode, you'll be able to "Bluefish" your way into more relationships, more private money, and ultimately more deals! We talk about "leading with value" when approaching mentors... blah blah blah. Today, you'll hear a refreshing new twiston that concept, and learn actual tactics you can put into practice to make more connections and level up your life today.  One final note: Steve uses some colorful language in this episode; please take note of the "Explicit" label, and listen to this one when the kiddos aren't in the backseat :) In This Episode We Cover: * How Steve went from bricklayer to bouncer to building a business that makes people's dreams come true * What "Bluefishing" is * Digging deeper to find your customers' true motivation * The one thing Artificial Intelligence can't replace * Why it's often better to remove – rather than solve – problems in your business * How to chase your own dreams, not someone else's * Why social media "influencer culture" often leave you feeling empty and unhappy * Stories of working with clients ranging from Elon Musk to The Pope Links from the Show * BiggerPockets Podcast * Bluefishing * SpaceX Click here to check the full notes:
1 hr 21 min
InvestED: The Rule #1 Investing Podcast
InvestED: The Rule #1 Investing Podcast
Phil Town & Danielle Town
288- The Physical and Economic Consequences of COVID-19
Danielle is back for this week’s episode of InvestED. After almost seven weeks into recovery since first experiencing symptoms from COVID-19, she starts to reintroduce routine activity into her daily life and discusses both the physical and economic consequences of COVID-19 with Phil. Numbers have spiked in Europe in the past week and a half and there are theories as to why. Why have rates in some countries spiked, while others have been able to keep their number of cases down - and what does this have to do with investing? Phil and Danielle agree that the virus is very political in the United States, especially with the presidential election on the horizon. There is no doubt that if the pandemic continues the way it has, we will see some very serious currency related issues and possibly dramatic inflation. Businesses such as theatres, sporting events, and restaurants are already on life-support, and the long term effects of people continuing to stay home from work and businesses will lead to many businesses going under. Phil and Danielle agree that another stimulus package will be pushed through very soon, but the question remains as to what will happen with the currency; how much can you print and put into the economy, and how will this affect the US dollar (USD) itself? On top of this, the USD is the world’s reserve currency. If the USD goes down in value, it will injure any other country who has the dollar sitting in its vaults. So what should we as investors invest in, and how should we diversify our investments to protect ourselves from economic crash or inflation? If you want to prepare for the next market crash, download Phil’s Stock Market Crash Survival Guide today: Learn more about your ad choices. Visit
43 min
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