Conscious Chatter with Kestrel Jenkins
Aug 21, 2019
S04 Episode 173 | FRANK AND OAK + LISTENING TO SHOPPERS TO DRIVE CREATION
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In episode 173, Kestrel welcomes Ethan Song, the cofounder of Frank and Oak, to the show. Inspired by ethical and sustainable thinking and with an eye to the future, Frank And Oak has set out to create clothing that is made for good living.
“So I think that for us, the idea is actually to create a deeper relationship with our customers, and make sure that we really understand them before we create something.”On this week’s show, Ethan shares more on how his entrepreneurial dreams led him to the fashion industry, and how Frank and Oak was initially the response to he and his cofounder not being able to find brands that shared their values.
Also, Ethan dives into what sustainability really means to Frank and Oak, and how for them, it’s about: first —minimizing impact, second — restore.
Kestrel asks Ethan to comment on sustainability when it comes to subscription box services. For Ethan and Frank and Oak, they believe their subscription service can help them learn more about their shoppers, and in turn, produce more accurately, reducing waste.
The below thoughts, ideas + organizations were brought up in this chat:
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SeaCell, a new fabric that Frank and Oak recently launched in their collection
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StylePlan, Frank and Oak’s subscription box service
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Frank and Oak’s Circular + Hydro-Less Denim
More episodes from Conscious Chatter with Kestrel Jenkins
1 day ago
Abby Mills (aka @abbyontheinternet) on the de-influencing *trend* & questioning whether this movement can help us combat overconsumption
In episode 291, Kestrel welcomes Abby Mills, aka @abbyontheinternet, to the show. A product designer working in tech in the San Francisco Bay Area, Abby is a style enthusiast, thrifter, beginner sewist, and a slow fashion + sustainability advocate.
“If we’re talking about the original definition of de-influencing, I think it’s great that more people are talking about this. There’s a wider conversation that’s happening now, and it’s this newer idea to a more mainstream audience. And I think that a lot of people are craving this conversation. I think there’s a strong response because people are pretty sick of being advertised to — they’re craving the substance, they’re craving this authenticity, they’re craving people with a unique point of view.” -Abby
You have most likely heard about this week’s topic – DE-INFLUENCING.
It’s something that started trending over on TikTok earlier this year, and has taken on many forms since then. In its origins, it was about becoming more critical about the things that we buy – and it started when a lot of so-called influencers started telling folks what NOT to buy, instead of their typical MO which is to focus on selling us things from their brand partners – things we more often than not, don’t need.
This is a refreshing idea – I mean, our feeds are flooded with sponcon these days. Apparently traditional influencer marketing was a $16.4 billion industry last year, and we are becoming increasingly aware of how much we are being marketed to on a constant basis.
But while the initial concept of de-influencing is refreshing, it’s definitely not new. There are several *influencers* or *content creators* who have been talking about issues around overconsumption and fast fashion and buying less for years now. Insert writer Aja Barber or creator Heidi Kaluza or drag queen Kimberly Clark – who was doing anti-hauls on YouTube 7 years ago, or this week’s guest – who sometimes calls herself an ex-influencer.
Over the last couple of months, we have seen the meaning of de-influencer shift rapidly. It’s gone from being about critiquing our consumerist society to instead, being co-opted by influencers and marketers as an opportunity to share why you shouldn’t buy this product and instead, you should just buy that product!
Before we dive deep into all these layers – let’s take a step back and momentarily examine what the origins of the influencer industry were all about.
This week’s guest reminds us that the influencer industry was built off of the idea that folks trust the authenticity of everyday people, aka influencers, more than actual brands.
But, aren’t we all struggling to trust *influencers* today? Aren’t we regularly overwhelmed with searching for some sort of authenticity, because so much of the content we consume was created, solely because someone was paid to create it?
As this week’s guest proposes – if influencers were actually doing their jobs (which includes being truthful and honest with their communities), would the de-influencing trend even exist?
If you can’t tell yet, we go down a labyrinth of a rabbit hole with this one – but a lot of the discussion circles back to this primary question —
Can de-influencing help us combat overconsumption?
Quotes & links from the conversation:
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“Deinfluencing EXPLAINED Sustainability, Overconsumption, & Deifluencers” — video by Queer Brown Vegan that Kestrel mentions
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“The new TikTok trend is convincing people not to buy things”, article in The Washington Post that Kestrel mentions
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“Can Social Media’s New Deinfluencing Trend Really Encourage Us To Buy Less Stuff?”, article in British Vogue by Aditi Mayer that Kestrel mentions
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Aja Barber — one of the original folks who have been talking about de-influencing concepts (mentioned on the show)
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Heidi Kaluza — one of the original folks who have been talking about de-influencing concepts (mentioned on the show)
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Kimberly Clark — one of the original folks who have been talking about de-influencing concepts (mentioned on the show)
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Mandy Lee — *trend* analyst who has discussed de-influencing (mentioned on the show)
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“I started to understand what monetizing was all about — when I came into this industry, I naively did not understand how to get paid to be on the internet. And now, if you’re a content creator or a vlogger or an influencer or whatever you call yourself — if you’re monetizing, you’re in the advertising industry. And this is not a judgement, you know, the advertising industry is a huge industry — there are many smart and creative people. So, it’s not a judgment, but it’s a fact. If you want to be paid to be on the internet and you’re not being paid by your following, like through subscribers, you’re part of the advertising industry.” -Abby (15:14)
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“That’s something that I try to practice throughout many aspects of my life is allowing myself to have little moments of failures and mistakes and being kind with myself so that I can feel confident to try new things … mistakes are an integral part of the learning process. You know, they’re not accidental — they really are necessary if you want to learn and you want to grow.” -Abby (49:20)
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Follow Abby on Instagram >
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Mar 12, 2023
Samata Pattinson, the CEO of RCGD Global on their Sustainable Style Guide, how it's being distributed to all attendees of Academy events this Oscar® season & the power of generative conversations
In episode 290, Kestrel welcomes Samata Pattinson, the CEO of RCGD Global, to the show. A women-led global change-making organization, RCGD Global is bringing environmental and social sustainability to the forefront of conversation and action within the global apparel and design industry.
“All I really want to be part of is helping other people see where they fit in this. And helping them to identify something that means something to them. It could be any of the things we talk about — it could be climate on a specific realm, it could be biodiversity through a specific realm, it could be women’s rights, it could be advocating for Indigenous or Black representation. It could be any of those things, but it’s almost like — let me try and help you see how you form a way of being in this conversation.” -Samata
Have you ever heard of the term generative conversation? It’s a newer concept for myself and it’s one that this week’s guest reminds us of.
On a basic level – generative conversations are conversations that involve genuine inquiry and sharing. They are conversations in which we engage in deep listening. They are conversations in which we feel truly heard and nourished – they involve a space where respect and trust are cultivated. And through generative conversations, they allow the possibility for expanded understandings and the discoveries of shared meaning.
In order to truly quote unquote *move the needle* in the sustainability and fashion space, these types of conversations are mandatory. As this week’s guest reminds us, when we talk about sustainability, we have to lead with questions … not our individual agenda. Questions welcome an openness to learning and sharing. And they help avoid the critical tone that can easily sneak its way into these discussions.
Because remember – how we have the conversation influences where the conversation goes.
Thoughtful communication is so KEY for this week’s guest. As the CEO of a global change-making organization, she is navigating storytelling with notable talent across a massive platform – the Red Carpet at the Oscars.
This year, she wrote the first ever Oscars Sustainable Dress code, that went out to every single attendee of this year’s event. Imagine condensing the many layers of sustainability and fashion into one document – she shares how she did it.
I love how she welcomes a constant expansion in the sustainability narrative, and never loses sight of a key ingredient: hope.
Quotes & links from the conversation:
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RCGD Global Sustainable Style Guide
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“We do say we want representation, we want these varied voices, but we don’t talk about how much more interesting the conversation is, how much more enlightening the conversation is. The same way we will say — oh, you know, we have Indigenous communities protecting 80 percent of our biodiversity, but what we don’t say is like but they protect it better. Comparatively, like 30-40-50 percent better growth biodiversity of fauna and flora. So, it’s not just saying like, this should exist — it’s saying it’s more interesting, it’s more expertise, it’s more engaging, why aren’t we doing more of it?” -Samata (30:22)
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Follow Samata on Instagram >
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Follow RCGD Global on Instagram >
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Follow Red Carpet Green Dress on Instagram >
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Mar 7, 2023
Amy Powney of Mother Of Pearl on the new documentary *Fashion Reimagined* and the need to reconnect to the people, the land & the process behind our clothes
In episode 289, Kestrel welcomes Amy Powney, a UK based fashion designer, creative director and activist living in London. After starting as an assistant who swept the cutting room floor, Amy worked her way up, and is now the Creative Director and owner at Mother Of Pearl. A luxury womenswear brand, Mother of Pearl celebrates individuality, authenticity and sustainability. Amy is also the star of a new documentary called Fashion Reimagined, that tells some of her story building Mother Of Pearl into what it is today.
“I guess growing up on a farm, growing up the way I did, working you know, in the bottoms of the supply chains and agriculture, et cetera, it just kind of — it felt homely and it felt raw and it felt honest and it felt important and it’s really motivated me even more to want to tell that story, and for us to really understand when we see our product, what people and places and craftsmanship has been added. And that we can’t just focus on this pure kind of end part, and we need to be really respectful and honored for the farmers and these workers — you know, without them, we don’t have clothes and without them, we don’t have food. I think we need to connect that supply chain up and respect it. And it’s given me so much more respect as a designer to what I’m doing and why I’m doing it.” -Amy
In Fashion Reimagined, Amy takes folks along with her on a journey to shift Mother Of Pearl toward a more sustainable direction. It all starts in 2017, when she wins the British Fashion Council/Vogue Designer Fashion Fund award and decides to invest that cash into tracing her supply chain back as far as possible to the raw materials.
The most exciting part of the film is watching them navigate their way through the sourcing process. We see their adventures in Uruguay to find a wool supplier, and their journey in Turkey to find a denim mill and factory, we see how they cultivate a relationship with a mill in Austria that uses steam rather than chemicals to soften the fabric, and of course, unexpected events happen, reminding us how important it is to be an exceptional problem solver in this industry.
The film culminates in the launch of the No Frills collection at London Fashion Week in September of 2018 – when Mother Of Pearl was the ONLY sustainable collection on the schedule. A reminder that this was only 5 years ago.
While we are undoubtedly seeing a lot of shifts in recent years – more brands showing more sustainably-focused collections, entire fashion weeks like Copenhagen dedicated to sustainability, and more mainstream discussion about it, Amy reminds us in the film that – “It’s not enough – we aren’t changing fast enough.”
As Pedro, the owner of Lanas Trinidad (Mother Of Pearl’s wool supplier), says in the film —
“We talk about sustainability and the environment – but we have to live the way we say.”
Quotes & links from the conversation:
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“I guess, the highlights, albeit being obviously one of the hardest parts of the process, was just reconnecting with the people in the supply chain. You know, in the fashion industry, it’s notorious for promotion and sales and social media. We see fashion and we very much see it a kind of a glossy moment. And I think historically, a lot of the conversations around supply chains has been a bit boring and it’s turned people off. And I think there’s one thing learning about a supply chain or thinking about it, but another thing is when you actually meet these humans involved in it.” -Amy (17:11)
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“If you look at a cotton garment, a wool garment, a viscose garment — I mean, even if you get into polyester and synthetics; obviously it’s all been through these plastic processes and fundamentally, it is plastic. But its origin is actually oil, so we’re actually taking from the planet in a very raw way to make our products, but we’re so disconnected at the end. And actually, if we look at farming and agriculture, it’s exactly the same in fashion — it’s just it’s a few more steps back, and people just don’t connect the dots, and I think that’s the piece of education that we all need to understand to respect our things in a different way.” -Amy (21:54)
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Lanas Trinidad, Mother Of Pearl’s wool supplier
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Fashion Reimagined Website (Fashion Reimagined - in cinemas 3rd March, 2023 and available on Sky Documentaries and streaming service NOW from 9th April, 2023)
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Mother Of Pearl Website
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Follow Amy on Instagram >
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Follow Fashion Reimagined on Instagram >
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Follow Mother Of Pearl on Instagram >
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